Sumo DD Spring Drilling

[Feldspar]

thanks for posting @Feldspar

dod you have any pics of the seed in the slot ? how well did the drill put the seed in touch with the moisture without a JD style firming wheel ? thats the bit I feel is missing from this drill

certainly have been an ideal zero-till spring, dry surface but good moisture in seeding zone, beans planted a week ago here are almost though already

Yes, that's the bit that most interested me. I can see how the difference between success and failure can be down to whether that seed is in the bottom of the slot with seed firmed around it or whether it sits somewhere higher up in the slot amongst loose and dry dirt that has been flicked in with the star wheel thing.

Certainly I found both occurring. Often you could flick out the loose soil and see a seed in what appeared to be the bottom of the slot and think, "Hmm, that's going to dry out." But then if you dug down a bit you often realised that what you thought was the bottom of the slot actually wasn't. Just below there were seeds sitting in moist and firmed soil. The killer question is what proportion of seeds find themselves in the first scenario, and what proportion find themselves in the second.

 

[martian]

Very interesting, thanks for posting. I suspect the rake was worse than unnecessary, but time will tell! As said above, it all depends on your soil /seed contact, but I think you'll have woken up the blackgrass a bit.

 

[Feldspar]

Very interesting, thanks for posting. I suspect the rake was worse than unnecessary, but time will tell! As said above, it all depends on your soil /seed contact, but I think you'll have woken up the blackgrass a bit.

Well the maschio certainly did!

 

[Feldspar]

thanks for posting @Feldspar

dod you have any pics of the seed in the slot ? how well did the drill put the seed in touch with the moisture without a JD style firming wheel ? thats the bit I feel is missing from this drill

certainly have been an ideal zero-till spring, dry surface but good moisture in seeding zone, beans planted a week ago here are almost though already

I've only got a few photos which show the worst areas (which aren't really representative). Here's one taken last week when I saw the drill working nearby:

As said above though, there could be seed well placed underneath this out of sight.

 

[Feldspar]

I think these two pictures I took in a Weaving Big Disc drilled field (same soil type as ours) of beans show the difference between success and failure.

Harder / compacted / wetter patch of soil with seed sitting in plain sight with air all around and residue hairpinned in:

Then, same field, seed put into the bottom of the slot and then moist soil firmed around it without residue (I had to dig the soil away to see this seed):

The ratio between the proportion of seeds in these two environments largely determines the success of the operation IMO.

 

[Clive]

I think these two pictures I took in a Weaving Big Disc drilled field (same soil type as ours) of beans show the difference between success and failure.

Harder / compacted / wetter patch of soil with seed sitting in plain sight with air all around and residue hairpinned in:
View attachment 142552

Then, same field, seed put into the bottom of the slot and then moist soil firmed around it without residue (I had to dig the soil away to see this seed):
View attachment 142554

The ratio between the proportion of seeds in these two environments largely determines the success of the operation IMO.

the first pic is a certain recipe for failure

 

[Feldspar]

thanks for posting @Feldspar

dod you have any pics of the seed in the slot ? how well did the drill put the seed in touch with the moisture without a JD style firming wheel ? thats the bit I feel is missing from this drill

certainly have been an ideal zero-till spring, dry surface but good moisture in seeding zone, beans planted a week ago here are almost though already

Dug this up from the 750a demo I had when it went through a tough bit (pretty similar soil conditions to Monday):

Not exactly perfect.

 

[SilliamWhale]

Dug this up from the 750a demo I had when it went through a tough bit (pretty similar soil conditions to Monday):
View attachment 142560

Not exactly perfect.

But your settings sounded not very good.

 

[Feldspar]

But your settings sounded not very good.

I know but I'm not sure how much that would have affected the firming of the seed in the slot though which is what I was talking about.

 

[SilliamWhale]

I know but I'm not sure how much that would have affected the firming of the seed in the slot though which is what I was talking about.

I wonder if it got a a chance to get to the bottom of the slot? Looks a few side escapees? Any other no tillers at lang lang?

 

[Feldspar]

I wonder if it got a a chance to get to the bottom of the slot? Looks a few side escapees? Any other no tillers at lang lang?

No-one that looked like the person in your picture.

 

[clbarclay]

Normally they look just like anyone else, its only when a field is in peril of cultivation that they dive into a phone box and come out looking like that.

 

[MDA]

Yes, that's the bit that most interested me. I can see how the difference between success and failure can be down to whether that seed is in the bottom of the slot with seed firmed around it or whether it sits somewhere higher up in the slot amongst loose and dry dirt that has been flicked in with the star wheel thing.

Certainly I found both occurring. Often you could flick out the loose soil and see a seed in what appeared to be the bottom of the slot and think, "Hmm, that's going to dry out." But then if you dug down a bit you often realised that what you thought was the bottom of the slot actually wasn't. Just below there were seeds sitting in moist and firmed soil. The killer question is what proportion of seeds find themselves in the first scenario, and what proportion find themselves in the second.

That's the bit that concerned us at first, but the more we see, the more becomes apparent that the seed that gets missed and doesn't quite make it to the bottom of the trench is a very low percentage pf the total, with the majority being firmed in place by the seed tab. I dare say a seed firming wheel would make a better job but I've never seen any evidence of this when I have seen one working on other machines plus it's an extra linkage, bearing, pivot, wearing part, cost etc which may not be necessary. I may be proved wrong in more difficult conditions though.
The area we need to focus on though I think is our closing wheel which Feldspar has mentioned occasionally will leave an open slot, usually when having to articulate over something or encountering a sudden stiffer patch of ground. They also need to be more easily adjustable as they seem to be the most adjusted element of the drill when we set up at a new demo. It's an issue identified by the demos this spring, and one we can now look at and fix easily.
The angle and action of the closing wheel though seems to be spot on and although they look rather aggressive, have quite a delicate action of breaking the furrow wall back on top of the sowing trench.
The least adjusted part of the drill has been the sowing depth which has remained mostly constant. Set at say 30mm it is usually only necessary to increase or decrease the coulter pressure by way of a valve on the drill.

Marv.

 

[SilliamWhale]

Normally they look just like anyone else, its only when a field is in peril of cultivation that they dive into a phone box and come out looking like that.

What happens when the last phone box closes in 2017?

 

[clbarclay]

What happens when the last phone box closes in 2017?

Gazing into the crystal ball I see a man in wales being charged for indecent exposure, changing in public and the resulting backlash against no till causes Sumo to develope ploughs instead.

 

[Clive]

I know but I'm not sure how much that would have affected the firming of the seed in the slot though which is what I was talking about.

did you get one with gutlers as a demo this time ? pointless machine without, especially on soils like yours

the setting of correct firming wheel pressure for conditions and the gutlter pressure can transform results

I reckon any zero-till drill will be successful 90% of the time in 90% of situations, last autumn and this spring any of the various brands would have been absolutely fine and put good crops in

What your looking for is a drill that will still succeed in that 10% of the time when the others fail, that's not so easy

 

[Feldspar]

did you get one with gutlers as a demo this time ? pointless machine without, especially on soils like yours

the setting of correct firming wheel pressure for conditions and the gutlter pressure can transform results

I reckon any zero-till drill will be successful 90% of the time in 90% of situations, last autumn and this spring any of the various brands would have been absolutely fine and put good crops in

What your looking for is a drill that will still succeed in that 10% of the time when the others fail, that's not so easy

No, that picture was from the old 750a demo a year or so ago. No guttlers and so the slot closure would obviously have been different. I only put that picture up because it showed the seed not firmed in the slot. Doubtless it could have been set up better.

 

[Fuzzy]

That's the bit that concerned us at first, but the more we see, the more becomes apparent that the seed that gets missed and doesn't quite make it to the bottom of the trench is a very low percentage pf the total, with the majority being firmed in place by the seed tab. I dare say a seed firming wheel would make a better job but I've never seen any evidence of this when I have seen one working on other machines plus it's an extra linkage, bearing, pivot, wearing part, cost etc which may not be necessary. I may be proved wrong in more difficult conditions though.
The area we need to focus on though I think is our closing wheel which Feldspar has mentioned occasionally will leave an open slot, usually when having to articulate over something or encountering a sudden stiffer patch of ground. They also need to be more easily adjustable as they seem to be the most adjusted element of the drill when we set up at a new demo. It's an issue identified by the demos this spring, and one we can now look at and fix easily.
The angle and action of the closing wheel though seems to be spot on and although they look rather aggressive, have quite a delicate action of breaking the furrow wall back on top of the sowing trench.
The least adjusted part of the drill has been the sowing depth which has remained mostly constant. Set at say 30mm it is usually only necessary to increase or decrease the coulter pressure by way of a valve on the drill.
View attachment 142812
View attachment 142816

Marv.

Have you tried fitting a camera to the disc/boot area to see if you can better understand the missed seed and slot closing issue?

 

[normandyfarmer]

@MDA : do you have an extra spring on the seed firmer ? As standard they are not stiff enough, especially at high speed.
The other thing on them is that they do wear, and with a lot of acres/year on the drill they will need to be changed every other year (as seen on precision planters equiped).

 

[MDA]

Have you tried fitting a camera to the disc/boot area to see if you can better understand the missed seed and slot closing issue?

Gopro is an amazing tool for getting a unique view of working components and you can often spot things in the playback that you wouldn't normally see. We use it a lot for this type of testing!