Don’t in my neck of the woods Devon their has now been a second ( that I know of ) ethical dairy start up. Are they doing more harm than good for dairy ?! My main point is around carbon footprint. Myself being with Arla am very keen to work on this the best I can going forward. As it seems the be measured by kilos/grams of carbon per litre of milk sold. Are they not contributing to this in a negative way by having so few litres sold, milking the cows once’s a day after the the calves had there share can only leave you with around 10 litres is what I have been told. Even by some miracle if his carbon foot print was half of mine, which I doubt my litres sold would be 3x as many.
The Rise Of The Ethical Dairy
- Thread starter wooly619
- Start date
Im not saying what right or wrong. Maybe I’m missing something. One of there marketing points is that they use no soya. We like the rest of the industry are mowing away from that because we all know it’s coming. Another point is the cost of rearing there heifers. Would there carbon footprint not be higher because ther consuming twice as much milk. Understand there probably getting no meal so saving there. And the point that all the cows are loosed houses with there calves for obvious reasons. Which is more environmentally friendly cubicles or loose house and so it goes on 
Sorry £1.50-£2 a litre
Your fine. I'm an ARLA owner too and just done my audit. Everybody can make claims it's the science proving it thats the thing. I don't think it's worth doing then. Our local vending machines are selling organic and conventional at £1.60 a bottle and think it's 50p for milk shake shot.
betweenthelines
Member
- Location
- southwest
I dislike terms like "ethical" as the direct implication is that the rest are "unethical" same with "organic" claiming to be "better"
Both are very subjective terms with little in the way of proof to back up the claims being made.
I think the existing "ethical" dairy farm has a very low stocking rate and output per acre. So if every UK farmer went down that "ethical" route, we would have to import more dairy products meaning more Rainforest being destroyed to create the new dairy units that would be needed.
How frigging "ethical" is that?
But then the public probably think "Well, I can holiday in the Maldives and drive a chelsea tractor to take Tarquin to school and collect the shopping, because we only buy "ethical" milk."
Both are very subjective terms with little in the way of proof to back up the claims being made.
I think the existing "ethical" dairy farm has a very low stocking rate and output per acre. So if every UK farmer went down that "ethical" route, we would have to import more dairy products meaning more Rainforest being destroyed to create the new dairy units that would be needed.
How frigging "ethical" is that?
But then the public probably think "Well, I can holiday in the Maldives and drive a chelsea tractor to take Tarquin to school and collect the shopping, because we only buy "ethical" milk."
I think you have hit the nail on the head. My main point being are they doing more good than harm. Are they doing good by maybe keeping people on dairy products that might of been on the verge or going plant based for what ever stupid reason... or are they making the situation worse by exactly what your saying and making the rest of us un ethical ?!
betweenthelines
Member
- Location
- southwest
But isn't all the talk about Dairy cross calves having to be reared and "reducing carbon footprints" driven by the Dairies/retailers wanting to appear to be more "ethical"?
There certainly seems to be a move to put more unnecessary restrictions on milk production.
By that I mean restrictions driven more by fashion than science.
Would anyone be surprised if buyers started to refuse milk from farmers feeding soya in the near future?
There certainly seems to be a move to put more unnecessary restrictions on milk production.
By that I mean restrictions driven more by fashion than science.
Would anyone be surprised if buyers started to refuse milk from farmers feeding soya in the near future?
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lazy farmer
Member
- Location
- som/dor border
ours is actively discouraging soya use.
- Location
- South Molton
Broken record
- Location
- DD9.
“Ethical” as a badge is a load of ballcocks
I have to have a sedex number to prove I’m “ethical” otherwise I can’t sell veg for large multiples.
sedex have a monopoly on this line of auditing, to do the latest “smeta” (feck knows what that stands for, but it’s an online audit) took over 3hrs. This adds nothing to my business, takes up time I don’t really have and is yet another needless form of stress. It now costs £100/yr for this pleasure, up from the initial £40.
I have written to them pointing all this out and telling them that in my eyes it is they who require an “ethical” audit not I. And guess what, they don’t give a flying feck, suggested I could bring it up at the AGM......... at only £85 a ticket for entry, plus travel to Kuala Lumpur and associated hotel fees.
Feckin cartel.
- Location
- South Shropshire
We sell mainly meat and I often get asked if we are organic, which we aren't. Much to my Missus's chagrin, I often reply by asking them if they buy organic for their benefit, or the animals? It really makes some of them think about it!
frederick
Member
- Location
- south west
The whole organic drive now appears to be eat less meat and dairy but eat ours because it's better than that conventional rubbish. Certainly what Helen browning was saying on Ch 4 .news last week. The problem is it's always argued it's better for you and the environment because it's organic not due to quantifiable reasons.
- Location
- South Molton
Was reading a paper from the US where organic credentials were proven to be extol environmental benefits over conventional.
- Location
- South Molton
Why the "or"?
Can be both.
frederick
Member
- Location
- south west
Yes but what are these benefits. I'm not knocking organic. But it can claim to be less intensive increase biodiversity on the farm and use no chemical inputs but then it takes a leap in the buyers perception that means it's More sustainable .
We still don't have that answer yet. Sustainability is very closely linked to efficiency and we may find that the most sustainable farm is a 365 housed system. It might actually prove to be more difficult for an organic farm to become carbon neutral than a conventional farm.
We might find that the consumer simply progresses to carbon footprint to be the only measure going forwards.
In my Somerset dorest border some of the most intensively farmed units in the area are organic with tractors hauling grub in all directions from 5 or 6 blocks of land 10 miles or more away with most fields being ploughed at least 3 out of every 5years. They certainly give the 2000 cow man a run for his money in how much diesel they can burn a litre. It's not the image that the high end supermarket they sell to would want to portray of organic to their customers.
betweenthelines
Member
- Location
- southwest
If I give someone two glasses of milk or two steaks and ask them to tell me which is conventional and which is organic, either by taste or test, they can't do it.
Because there is no difference.
Because there is no difference.
dinderleat
Member
- Location
- Wells
- Location
- Wiltshire
Im not allowed to feed soya to milking cows, only been on this contract for 6 months but haven’t fed soya for 4 or 5 years now except for some rape meal supply issues
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deleted user 837354
Member
To be fair, I know loads of people who haven't fed soya in years. Some buyers banned it years ago.
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BPR is not just a farming issue, it affects ALL business, it removes incentive to invest for growth
Join us @LondonPalladium on the 16th for beginning of UK business fight back
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