UK carbon tax would cause disproportionate harm to farmers

[Chris F]

Another thing of madness coming out of COP. A comment was released this week as below says that a carbon tax might only apply to UK food and not imported food. Which would be the most ridiculous tax ever and lead to more pollution not less.

I can't see why they can't tax imports just the same as UK grown food.

Plus maybe if the public had to pay tax on everything, they might start to realise what actually causes pollution in this country and its really isn't the production of food on UK farms.

What I would agree, is a half baked tax, which the means to re-circulate the money raised to cut pollution would be a disaster.

As the 2021 United Nations Climate Change Conference (COP26) enters its second week, Joe Spencer, Partner at MHA, believes a possible UK carbon tax could result in swathes of farmers going out of business and urges the government to seek alternative solutions to tackle climate change:

“The introduction of a carbon tax could be a severe blow to UK agriculture. Such a measure may profoundly decrease margins across the sector, especially for growers, and put businesses at huge risk at a time when they need support from the government most.

“Amid suggestions that the UK could take the lead and be the first country to adopt a carbon tax, unless this tax was agreed on a global scale, UK farmers would undoubtedly feel a disproportionately negative impact compared to their international competitors. The result would drive up consumer prices for UK products, thereby boosting demand to import produce from outside the country, as well as undermine the ambition of UK farmers to grow sustainable, low carbon food while protecting the countryside.

“What’s more, although research has shown that 90% of British consumers would be happy to pay higher food prices to ensure UK farmers receive a fair return for their produce*, it’s highly doubtful this sentiment would persist if price increases were to cover a carbon tax rather than going back into farmers’ pockets.

“The agriculture sector can – and should - play a pivotal role in tackling climate change, however, it is important to prevent irreparable damage to businesses. As such, the UK government should be considering other avenues to ensure agriculture is more sustainable in the country, such as providing education, support and access to sustainable farming practices and potentially incentivising green alternatives with specifically targeted tax reliefs.

“Part of the government’s strategy should also address the distorted public perception of agriculture’s contribution to climate change, such as challenging false media claims on agriculture carbon emissions and working with industry leaders like the National Farmers Union and Country Land and Business Association on educating the wider public to improve understanding of the issues and reinforce the importance of the food sector.

“It is only by a joint and supported approach by the sector and the government that we can make a difference in solving the pressing climate issues we face while at the same time ensuring the livelihoods of farmers are not jeopardised.”

*https://ruralpolicygroup.com/consumers-back-british-farming/

Similar thread here on imported food tax.

Import tax to save the planet!

I found this an interesting article. Of course, we should be taking this attitude to food imports. Very pertinent to the proposed new coking plant.

thefarmingforum.co.uk

 

[Pan mixer]

HMG have a history of ignoring their own farmers and 'taxing' the home supply.

I bang on about it a bit, I know, but the unilateral banning of sow satlls here in 1999 and, because we were in the EU, the inability of banning pigmeat from stall using systems lead to the demise of half out pig industry over the next few years.

Carbon tax would be fine as long as the imported food faced exactly the same tax including that on the transport to the UK (a small matter ignored by some antipodean academics)

 

[Bramble]

The acedemics argue that because it’s coming by ship the transport emmisions per unit of imported product is very low. This might well be the case but there needs to be a rigorously monitored set a standards applied to imports.

Otherwise we will just end up in a similar position that we are currently in with Red Tractor crop standards and self certified crop imports

If the aim is to offshore U.K. agriculture, and its emissions, at least be honest about it. It won’t take long for pressure groups to question the carbon emissions of imports once domestic production has disappeared.

I really hope that some of the politicians/acedemics are still around or in power when the consequences of some of these mad cap policies finally become clear

 

[Still Farming]

Big farmers with biggest carbon foot print could be taxed is it ???

Small farmers green rebate is it ?????

 

[farmerm]

Its all down to the calculator.... if I am responsible for 70kg of carbon emmisons per tonne of wheat but there is 400kg carbon sequestered in that tonne of wheat I must be in line to get a carbon tax rebate for the surplus 330kg of carbon sequestered in every tonne I sell.....

How would the calculation work for livestock... the methane emmision calculation is a complete lie.... todays cattle are only replacing the methane that was emitted by cattle 8-10years ago and both national and globally cattle numbers are fairly static if not in decline! If cattle number remain the same or decline they can not be contributing to a net increase in atmospheric methane only maintaining it.

 

[Still Farming]

What Calculator ??
The buyers OR the Sellers ones????

 

[puppet]

The acedemics argue that because it’s coming by ship the transport emmisions per unit of imported product is very low. This might well be the case but there needs to be a rigorously monitored set a standards applied to imports.

Otherwise we will just end up in a similar position that we are currently in with Red Tractor crop standards and self certified crop imports

If the aim is to offshore U.K. agriculture, and its emissions, at least be honest about it. It won’t take long for pressure groups to question the carbon emissions of imports once domestic production has disappeared.

I really hope that some of the politicians/acedemics are still around or in power when the consequences of some of these mad cap policies finally become clear

I have heard that argument recently but, firstly, we need to agree the carbon footprint of the produce as well as the transport.
More importantly, when the low carbon/kg ship can actually dock 20 miles inland at my local supermarket and avoid any lorries I will start to listen. They haven't considered the transport either side of the ship

 

[Still Farming]

I have heard that argument recently but, firstly, we need to agree the carbon footprint of the produce as well as the transport.
More importantly, when the low carbon/kg ship can actually dock 20 miles inland at my local supermarket and avoid any lorries I will start to listen. They haven't considered the transport either side of the ship

Or (banned chemical in this Country) chemicals used, ground grown on if rain forest or protected seas etc etc carbon foot prints????

 

[teslacoils]

Presumably if I suck up more carbon than I make, the govt gives me some kind of payment then? It doesn't? Ah well stuff it.

 

[Still Farming]

Will some assurance sticker be awarded to show packed/processed in the UK even though from abroad produce, thus avoiding scheme inspections and paperwork allegedly?????
Little footprint BIG FOOTPRINT for instance ?????

 

[Cowabunga]

It's all a bad dream. Except its not.

Be prepared to abandon food production in the UK and to find alternative means of making a living. I hear that there's a shortage of lorry drivers. They'll be needed even more to distribute all the extra imported food from the docks. Good money too with no capital outlay/investment either, unless you are daft enough to start your own trucking company.

 

[Chris F]

The acedemics argue that because it’s coming by ship the transport emmisions per unit of imported product is very low. This might well be the case but there needs to be a rigorously monitored set a standards applied to imports.

Otherwise we will just end up in a similar position that we are currently in with Red Tractor crop standards and self certified crop imports

If the aim is to offshore U.K. agriculture, and its emissions, at least be honest about it. It won’t take long for pressure groups to question the carbon emissions of imports once domestic production has disappeared.

I really hope that some of the politicians/acedemics are still around or in power when the consequences of some of these mad cap policies finally become clear

I heard a quote at OFC that is 8kg of CO2e per 1kg of food that is flown by plane. I remember thinking at the time that it can't be that high. I don;t know the figure by sea. But a container ship has a 10 million litre fuel capacity. There might be a lot of food on them, but that is still a lot of Co2e.

 

[Chris F]

More total nonsense:

COP26: Food emissions rise is yet more proof that farming must change

At COP26 this week, the UN released data that shows global greenhouse gas emissions from food and agriculture have risen by 17% in the last 30 years.

The UN data actually says that emission on farming decreased globally "from 2.7 to 2.1 tonnes CO2eq per capita".

This is still too much, but I'm not sure that any other global industry has seen a reduction in the 1990 to 2020 period. Population is up 2.5 billion in that time alone. So population went up 46% and emission by 17%. That shows we have a population problem not a farming problem.

CO2 emission up from 20.5 to 33.4 gt a year over the same period.

 

[asdf]

Its all down to the calculator.... if I am responsible for 70kg of carbon emmisons per tonne of wheat but there is 400kg carbon sequestered in that tonne of wheat I must be in line to get a carbon tax rebate for the surplus 330kg of carbon sequestered in every tonne I sell.....

How would the calculation work for livestock... the methane emmision calculation is a complete lie.... todays cattle are only replacing the methane that was emitted by cattle 8-10years ago and both national and globally cattle numbers are fairly static if not in decline! If cattle number remain the same or decline they can not be contributing to a net increase in atmospheric methane only maintaining it.

You're selling yourself short on the wheat. The 70kg of 'carbon' emmisions are CO2 rather than elemental carbon. This means your tonnne of wheat has actually sequestered approximately 1.5 tonnes of 'carbon' (CO2 equivalent units) .

 

[farmerm]

You're selling yourself short on the wheat. The 70kg of 'carbon' emmisions are CO2 rather than elemental carbon. This means your tonnne of wheat has actually sequestered approximately 1.5 tonnes of 'carbon' (CO2 equivalent units) .

chuching! gonna soon be rolling in all this carbon tax rebate money.... Though my 70 and 400kg figure on both sides of the equation were both espressed as C I think... the carbon content of grain compared to the carbon component of the CO2 emissions from producing it

 

[Jimdog1]

Another thing of madness coming out of COP. A comment was released this week as below says that a carbon tax might only apply to UK food and not imported food. Which would be the most ridiculous tax ever and lead to more pollution not less.

I can't see why they can't tax imports just the same as UK grown food.

Plus maybe if the public had to pay tax on everything, they might start to realise what actually causes pollution in this country and its really isn't the production of food on UK farms.

What I would agree, is a half baked tax, which the means to re-circulate the money raised to cut pollution would be a disaster.



Similar thread here on imported food tax.

Import tax to save the planet!

I found this an interesting article. Of course, we should be taking this attitude to food imports. Very pertinent to the proposed new coking plant.

thefarmingforum.co.uk

Feel free to join them if you wish.

 

[puppet]

I heard a quote at OFC that is 8kg of CO2e per 1kg of food that is flown by plane. I remember thinking at the time that it can't be that high. I don;t know the figure by sea. But a container ship has a 10 million litre fuel capacity. There might be a lot of food on them, but that is still a lot of Co2e.

Lorry 80g Co2/km/ton
Ship 3g Co2/km/ton

Looks good for shipping...

...but 1kg beef on a ship 13,500 km from Oz is 40g and on a lorry for 250km is 20g/kg.

Solution is food close to home or did we know that already?

 

[R J]

It's all a bad dream. Except its not.

Be prepared to abandon food production in the UK and to find alternative means of making a living. I hear that there's a shortage of lorry drivers. They'll be needed even more to distribute all the extra imported food from the docks. Good money too with no capital outlay/investment either, unless you are daft enough to start your own trucking company.

yep , bugger it , if it goes that way I'm off to drive a bulldozer in Brazil !
Give um what they want hey !

 

[DaveGrohl]

Carbon tax would be fine as long as the imported food faced exactly the same tax including that on the transport to the UK (a small matter ignored by some antipodean academics)

Presumably when you say a carbon tax would be fine you're also expecting that we get a full rebate and the rest for the carbon we ABSORB from the atmosphere that the rest of the population have put there? Ie, a carbon tax on us would be absobloodylutely ludicrous.

Edit: apologies for arriving late, I see it's already been said.

 

[delilah]

Lorry 80g Co2/km/ton
Ship 3g Co2/km/ton

Looks good for shipping...

...but 1kg beef on a ship 13,500 km from Oz is 40g and on a lorry for 250km is 20g/kg.

Solution is food close to home or did we know that already?

Plenty of stats on the environmental damage caused by food transportation in the attached. (apologies that it was produced by the lentil knitters, you will just have to turn a blind eye to that).