Virtual Ploughing Tuition

[Ley253]

what's wrong with this one then Harry? Are you saying that the back furrow on the second run is too far to the left? Enlighten us please.

The centre rippling is "wavery", other than that its a good opening, all three furrows are the same size and its cut out very cleanly. A tail fin on the front coming back may have smoothed the slice a little but its very easy to press too hard, and when you stop looking, the slice sticks, and you have a heap of narrow stair carpet in the plough! looking again the centre rippling could have been a little more central, though I think there would be enough of it to support the front furrow of the second crown run

 

[wuddy]

Re moving boards - mine are set and forget, I spent ages setting them to replicate the measurements of a well known person in my class. I check they’ve not moved regularly, but apart from that, I never move. I understand the obvious reasons about twist and push, but I don’t profess to understand when I should mess about with them. I have contemplated pulling the front board in for the penultimate run, but apart from that I never bother.

With ins and outs, one important thing to remember is that it’s not just the entry egress bit, it’s the tidyness of the first meter or so, mainly don’t couple/pair it.

I think the main thing for match work is total attention to detail from start to finish. Check, measure, check, measure, all the way through. You should get parallel and starlight for the first few runs on your neighbours plot. There is no excuse to not finish at the correct width. My guilty sin is not being shallow enough in the last few runs, I have to force myself to shallow off! If you‘re shallow straight and the right width, the finish should be easy? ......not!

I’m with you on the set and forget with the yl’s! With them only having the single bolt at the front it doesn’t take much for the board to move up or down while you’re pushing it out or pulling it in! Taking a stab in the dark I don’t think the man who’s plough you copied ever moves his boards!

 

[spindle]

Not so much of the old timer, you cheeky coconut!
I was only trying to tease out the secrets so it would assist you knobheads!!!!
Seriously though as we can't go and do some physical ploughing, and there wasn't much activity on here, I was trying to generate a bit of interest and debate.

Youve got to self isolate so dust down the ts and give it a go, I have some measurements wrote down for a ts64 if your interested ££££££££££££?

 

[Cordiale]

He doesnt have any!! Except he does have a skill that would produce paired work with a 5 furrow plough!!! Lol
We both plough in the Fergie Class, while the basics of board set up/pitch/angles and tweaks etc would apply to all ploughs there are quite a few unique Fergie tweaks.
It is shunned to mod them but they were mass produced and certainly have a wide tolerance re manufacturing back in the day, more now due to age, so a mix and match approach with components, holes enlarged or elongated etc etc and you can end up with a handy little plough, in the right soil type you can give Vintage Mounted boys a run, think I've won 3 Vintage Mounted matches using the Fergie so far.
A good set of worn boards go best, some trim the tails but I havent bothered as mine are pretty worn, the best ones have a decent flat bottom to the lower board edge, Trevor will tell you about that aspect!!
Boards seem to differ markedly, I have 4 boards in the shed and not one of them is the same as any of the others!
Lower board edge, landslide bottom and share wing tip correlation have quite an important part to play with them and they like a bit of lead to land.
I know they are shunned but they are good fun, people in the class are great and they're simple to get around and I am sure if you can plough well with a Fergie a Ransomes shouldnt be too hard to get on with.
I've just built up a Robin on YL183's using some of the tweaks I have learnt with the Fergie but have yet to try it.

A certain Mr Ingram uses both to excellent effect, so I'm sure you'll get on ok. Good luck.

 

[Cordiale]

Plenty of secrets in set up though.

Tell me more, tell me more!

 

[Howard150]

Don’t shout at me but....if it were meant to be made with a bit cut off the bottom then basically, Ransomes would have made it that way!

Sometimes slight wear is an advantage but by and large try and get out of the habit of cutting too much off if any. Biggest downer is the misconception that cutting a chunk off the bottom of a Ransome board makes it go better. In my experience all it does is make it that much harder to make a good opening. Tough at the top and up there any points lost means a blue prize card at best.

Not being a clever tawt but very few of us went to the school of hard knocks and invisible mending when it comes to putting ‘doctored’ mouldboards back to how they used to was,

 

[Fergie Ploughman]

I think fergie GP boards definitely work better when the rear lower edge has worn away. I think the fact it’s missing doesn’t then push the soil up as tight and must result in nicer furrows.

 

[Cordiale]

Park that old Fiskers up old timer and start using your Ransomes TS64 with the TCN boards on or the YL183s, don't ask this lot on here they are not going to reveal all their trade secrets you might be competing against them one day oh and by the way shave that fuzz off your face? the scientists say it harbour's the Chinese virus

Well it looks like you are right Spindle old chap, as you said none of these are going to reveal their trade secrets. It's really sad because, it's one thing reading about how to do it, but a different ball game trying to do it.

 

[Fergie Ploughman]

Well it looks like you are right Spindle old chap, as you said none of these are going to reveal their trade secrets. It's really sad because, it's one thing reading about how to do it, but a different ball game trying to do it.

Well I thought you’ve had quite a few good comments from people, unsure what “trade secrets” you‘re expecting and who from, unsure who the “this lot on here” are who spindle refers to...

 

[arcobob]

I don’t believe in this trade secrets conspiracy theory. Match ploughing is an art form and some people possess the necessary skills and some don’t. I am sure that famous painters through the ages suffered the same criticism but some have it and some don’t.
Any sporting coach will tell you that the best their efforts can achieve are to develop the natural skill of the pupil to maximise the potential. There is no quick fix or magic wand and anyone who thinks there is will surely be disappointed. Put simply it is all down to observation and experimentation. The coach can only teach people how to teach themselves.

 

[MrNoo]

I also think that you need to remove as many variables out of it as you can, ie get your kit up together, plough setup. I am amazed with some ploughs I've had to look at, you ask them if it's all square etc to which they reply yes, all done blah blah blah but when you actually measure it or put some straight edges on the board tops, it's miles out. Why dont we put straight edges on the lower board edges??? Seems more accurate.
I agree with the above and I could tell you what I do with my plough (it is only a Fergie) but unless you plough with your plough led well into work, my observations wouldnt really help you.
Several people have used my plough and didnt get on with it at all (Mr Stokes said he was glad to give it back!!) but it does what I want it to, it's sensitive to adjustments which in my mind means it's set up pretty well and work is pretty good. Just got to learn how to get the best from it consistently.

 

[Ley253]

I don’t believe in this trade secrets conspiracy theory. Match ploughing is an art form and some people possess the necessary skills and some don’t. I am sure that famous painters through the ages suffered the same criticism but some have it and some don’t.
Any sporting coach will tell you that the best their efforts can achieve are to develop the natural skill of the pupil to maximise the potential. There is no quick fix or magic wand and anyone who thinks there is will surely be disappointed. Put simply it is all down to observation and experimentation. The coach can only teach people how to teach themselves.

For the fine tuning, you are right Bob, but there is so much need to know "How to" in match ploughing that a coach can have a noticeable effect. In many other sports, its man and ball or similar, in ploughing its learning to use a machine, as is motor racing and moto X, and there is much in that which is not instinctive, tell a novice footballer to kick the ball down the pitch, and they can. tell a novice ploughman to do an opening and they may not be able to put the plough on the tractor. much less use it, even if they can drive the tractor.
Over the years I have noticed that information does become sparse, the better you become , few are willing to pass info on which will result in their defeat. I went to David Chappells hoping for some instruction, He walked over the practise work I had done, and the instruction boiled down to, "I dont like this," at various points, but never was the reason for the dislike forthcoming

 

[Cordiale]

Maybe trade secrets was the wrong description. Perhaps he should have called it tips, tricks and techniques!

 

[Pennine Ploughing]

it is virtually impossible to give virtual ploughing tuition over the internet,
the reason is this, for a start off there is lots of different classes,
and each class is, well different, and also what will work for one ploughman will not work for many others, never mind all ploughmen, as the same make of plough with same bodies on will be different from the next,
then there is the tractor, there not all the same, some are more comfortable that others,
oh and soil and field conditions can alter so much from plot to plot on the same day in same field,
now I know this is not much help at all, but sadly that is how it is,

most important thing is to
A, the tractor, have the tractor wheels set right, and everything is in good order, without this your not going anywhere,
B, the plough is square and true, and everything is free with good threads, all nuts and bolts are easy to adjust,
you need to (assuming its a 2 furrow) have both bodies set the same,
pitch on point, push on boards, height of boards, setting on skims, and discs, ALL need to be the same for each furrow,
its a bit like fell walking you would have same foot wear on your feet, and a lace boot and a wellie, get them the same on the bodies both front and back,
C the bum on the seat, now many want to do a real good job, yet dont put the effort in for whatever reason,
the top ploughmen will be eating drinking and sleeping ploughing, and many will be working away night after night getting the plough ready, to the fact it may become an obsession,
you really need a very strong interest in ploughing, and watch the soil as it flows over the board, and not be afraid to try something new, however if at any point you alter anything ONLY do 1 adjustment at a time, if its wrong then put it back to where it was, and try something else,

the quickest way across the field is in a straight line, and bent ploughing looks bad,
if something looks wrong,try adjusting something to make it right, dont just keep ploughing hoping it gets better,
they say practice makes perfect, well in a word not in ploughing it dont, as in do not pratice and home or somewhere on your own, 2 reasons for this,
1 you have no other ploughing to compare it to, and secondly you will pick up bad habits and not have that competitive edge to better yourself, and will slip in to a lazy way of ploughing,

I know this may be not some want to hear, but pay heed to the above, and you will be starting off on the right foot,
and remember no 2 ploughs are the same,
and in the words of howard150, " failing to prepare, is preparing to fail "

 

[spindle]

Maybe trade secrets was the wrong description. Perhaps he should have called it tips, tricks and techniques!

Well bugger me Allan that's stirred up a hornets nest and you certainly have got many great Ploughman giving their thoughts now which I presume is all you were asking for
And as for trade secrets their are many great ploughman on here now and in the past who have given great advice and I for one have benefited from some very sound views given on here

All he was trying to do was wake you miserable bunch of old buggers up out of your slumber and start talking about ploughing a past time all of us love and one which if we talk and discuss will take our minds for short spells off of the horrors of the virus and by talking and chortling on about any thing to do with this art form no matter how small or mundane it might seem, you will be making the lock down seem that much more tolerable and who knows it might even save lives by preventing people going out and about
Stay safe and for God's sake keep smiling

 

[Ley253]

it is virtually impossible to give virtual ploughing tuition over the internet,
the reason is this, for a start off there is lots of different classes,
and each class is, well different, and also what will work for one ploughman will not work for many others, never mind all ploughmen, as the same make of plough with same bodies on will be different from the next,
then there is the tractor, there not all the same, some are more comfortable that others,
oh and soil and field conditions can alter so much from plot to plot on the same day in same field,
now I know this is not much help at all, but sadly that is how it is,

most important thing is to
A, the tractor, have the tractor wheels set right, and everything is in good order, without this your not going anywhere,
B, the plough is square and true, and everything is free with good threads, all nuts and bolts are easy to adjust,
you need to (assuming its a 2 furrow) have both bodies set the same,
pitch on point, push on boards, height of boards, setting on skims, and discs, ALL need to be the same for each furrow,
its a bit like fell walking you would have same foot wear on your feet, and a lace boot and a wellie, get them the same on the bodies both front and back,
C the bum on the seat, now many want to do a real good job, yet dont put the effort in for whatever reason,
the top ploughmen will be eating drinking and sleeping ploughing, and many will be working away night after night getting the plough ready, to the fact it may become an obsession,
you really need a very strong interest in ploughing, and watch the soil as it flows over the board, and not be afraid to try something new, however if at any point you alter anything ONLY do 1 adjustment at a time, if its wrong then put it back to where it was, and try something else,

the quickest way across the field is in a straight line, and bent ploughing looks bad,
if something looks wrong,try adjusting something to make it right, dont just keep ploughing hoping it gets better,
they say practice makes perfect, well in a word not in ploughing it dont, as in do not pratice and home or somewhere on your own, 2 reasons for this,
1 you have no other ploughing to compare it to, and secondly you will pick up bad habits and not have that competitive edge to better yourself, and will slip in to a lazy way of ploughing,

I know this may be not some want to hear, but pay heed to the above, and you will be starting off on the right foot,
and remember no 2 ploughs are the same,
and in the words of howard150, " failing to prepare, is preparing to fail "

So many just go out and practise their mistakes! Others do just drive up and down hoping the plough will put things right, as, indeed they have no idea what else to do!

 

[Pennine Ploughing]

So many just go out and practise their mistakes! Others do just drive up and down hoping the plough will put things right, as, indeed they have no idea what else to do!

I do the former and you do the later

 

[Ley253]

Ha! I dont know in your case, but for many years in mine, you would have been quite right! I have ploughed many spare plots after a match, knowing something was wrong, but not knowing what! The plough had been inspected many times, and I could find no fault, so I put the trouble down to operator error.
This idea was shown to be mistaken when I changed to the 25 bodies,they would not align. I found a bent front leg, which, somehow I had missed before.This has been replaced, and, so far things are looking good, though with the weather and now the virus, there has been little chance to practise.
The moral of this is had I had a second pair of experienced eyes helping set the plough up, and teaching me how to use it, they could well have found the problem.
To all beginners I will say, find yourself an experienced mentor
until you do, go to many matches as a spectator Take videos of top men at work, you can then take these home and view it many times, stopping at points of interest.After watching a few times, things will seem to "Jump out " at you, highlighting the effect of small adjustments.
Enquire as to the chance of being a "Clockwork mouse," at a judges seminar, If you manage to do this, hop off your tractor and join on to the group of student judges, when they are on your work ,it will be discussed in great detail, much more so than at a match, much can be learnt.
If the clockwork mouse position is a bit daunting, ( a skin made of tungsten carbide can be an asset) become a student judge.

 

[TrickyT]

Several people have used my plough and didnt get on with it at all (Mr Stokes said he was glad to give it back!!) but it does what I want it to, it's sensitive to adjustments which in my mind means it's set up pretty well and work is pretty good. Just got to learn how to get the best from it consistently.

I have used MrNoo's plough. Although both our ploughs are set up 'almost' identical, it was totally different to using mine and I could not replicate the work I have seen him produce with it. I know that could be down to soil conditions, but I also think it more to do with the user.

MrNoo can seem to jump onto any Fergie and plough and get a decent furrow from it. I believe it is more of an understanding of the kit and more importantly, soil conditions. It is something the me being from an 'office' background I still need to learn.

Straightness, the cardinal sin in competition ploughing is crookedness, if you cannot drive straight you have no business in the field.

Second to that is paired work or coupled work. If you can see those on the finished plot as pairs or couples that is ghastly, you have committed a ghastly sin.
?

Trevor

As I put in my previous post, if you cannot master these two basics, then no amounts of tips or tweeks are going to help.

Walking down may a plot with MrNoo, first thing we often quote is that 'it is not straight' or 'that's paired'

Trevor

 

[Ley253]

I have used MrNoo's plough. Although both our ploughs are set up 'almost' identical, it was totally different to using mine and I could not replicate the work I have seen him produce with it. I know that could be down to soil conditions, but I also think it more to do with the user.

MrNoo can seem to jump onto any Fergie and plough and get a decent furrow from it. I believe it is more of an understanding of the kit and more importantly, soil conditions. It is something the me being from an 'office' background I still need to learn.



As I put in my previous post, if you cannot master these two basics, then no amounts of tips or tweeks are going to help.

Walking down may a plot with MrNoo, first thing we often quote is that 'it is not straight' or 'that's paired'

Trevor

One thing you could find helpful. Get off the tractor and look at your work from all directions, you will have the same viewpoint as the judge and pairing and straightness are more noticeable from behind. Some work can be a puzzle, paired when viewed from behind, but not when viewed from ahead, skims can be the culprit here, but you wont notice from the tractor seat!
I believe straightness is most noticeable and accurate when the back of the furrow is used as the datum, in dry conditions the coulter face can crumble and give a false impression.