Water Main Cost per M?

[Ukjay]

This is what I was mulling over recently on another thread. Allow the main to fill up during the day/ overnight and then use it from a pump system, as I want to split my 25mm service pipe into 3 properties.

Been thinking about this

DAB ESYBOX and TWIN ESYTANK Booster Pump Set - AES

The DAB ESYBOX and TWIN ESYTANK comprises our best-selling ESYBOX booster pump and two 480L ESYTANKS, includes tank connection kit

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It seems plug and play and suitable for potable water. The only thing is is weather you will use all the water quicker than the mains can fill up again - in which case you could still use a pump like this but a larger tank and probably need a uv filter. But if your mains is capable of keeping up with demand now, then it may be capable of keeping up with this.

That is fine on a system with a decent feed, and your use is seemingly lower. The OP has the following on a 20mm pipe:

"This has to feed the main house, 7 barn conversions(13 beds in total), small caravan site and the yards."

So it would be beneficial if he could increase the service pipe as well as adding Terminal Improvements, as you cannot draw more water out a pipe than it can physically carry, so I could see that system starving itself if the incoming is not improved.

 

[Ukjay]

I had a quote for something like this recently and it was nearly £4 plus vat. But currently I'm trying to find a cheaper way

Did you snap their hand off

 

[SilliamWhale]

That is fine on a system with a decent feed, and your use is seemingly lower. The OP has the following on a 20mm pipe:

"This has to feed the main house, 7 barn conversions(13 beds in total), small caravan site and the yards."

So it would be beneficial if he could increase the service pipe as well as adding Terminal Improvements, as you cannot draw more water out a pipe than it can physically carry, so I could see that system starving itself if the incoming is not improved.

True. I would think getting a 10k litre tank and using a pump would be better in his case. For 8 properties its justifiable

 

[Doing it for the kids]

That is not the case if he is putting a new water pipe in with a new connection it all need to be done by the book , ie GPS photo's taken every 25 meters of it for the depth of the new pipe ,min 1000mm , were it is at , if on hard land it needs to be in bedding sand, it may be his pipe but he needs to do all this to tick the boxes for the water company to connect it to the mains pipe

Whats the definition of a new connection?

If I’m just replacing my pipe my side of the meter does the water company need to know?

surely there are Potentially three costs here, a new pipe, and upgraded meter supply size or a tank / pump combo.

i bet the cost of the first two isn’t huge amounts more than The last.

if it was me I’d run a bignew supply pipe and connect into the small meter and see if that’s ok, if not upgrade the meter.

a booster tank and pump comes with headaches, power cuts, pump maintenance, hygiene etc and still you haven’t really solved the problem.

 

[Speedstar]

surely there are Potentially three costs here, a new pipe, and upgraded meter supply size or a tank / pump combo.

i bet the cost of the first two isn’t huge amounts more than The last.

if it was me I’d run a bignew supply pipe and connect into the small meter and see if that’s ok, if not upgrade the meter.

a booster tank and pump comes with headaches, power cuts, pump maintenance, hygiene etc and still you haven’t really solved the problem.

We wanted to put a 50mm pipe and they would not let is best we could get was a 32mm

 

[Doing it for the kids]

Do you mean a new 32mm meter or a new pipe from your farm to yoru side of their meter?

I question if they would ever notice if you turned of the stop cock, found the pipe on your side of the meter a few metres away and tapped into it with a bigger pipe?

 

[Ukjay]

Do you mean a new 32mm meter or a new pipe from your farm to yoru side of their meter?

I question if they would ever notice if you turned of the stop cock, found the pipe on your side of the meter a few metres away and tapped into it with a bigger pipe?

What are you thinking would be the net gain of cutting the 20mm pipe a couple of meters away from the meter and adding the 32mm pipe, especially if the meter is connected to a 25mm feed from the trunk main?

 

[br jones]

Normally it is recognised as being you the homeowner being responsible for the maintenance / repair from the stop tap / outlet of the meter to the house, so technically; you can argue you are replacing a failed water pipe, thus you were doing your part in conserving water were you not
If you buy wras approved fittings and pipe (which it is difficult not to these days if buying from reputable places), then there is nothing too daunting about it.
Also, if you know what meter you have, you can then find the tech data to see the connection sizes and flow rates etc to give you an idea of what you are dealing with to aid getting the appropriate fittings, as there is no point trying to fit a 63mm pipe if it has 3/4 BSP fittings.

I think you will find that welsh water will not give a flying fig ,they dont give a monkeys about their side of the tap let alone your side ,complete tstrokers ,they have disowned pipes here leaving 18 large houses on a 1 old 3/4 galvinised pipe ,you couldnt make it up

 

[Thick Farmer]

I just replaced our water pipe from the metre to the farm and houses. It’s 25mm at the metre but as I had a load of 63mm pipe from a previous job, I have installed that from the metre to the farm (about 500 metres). Although the inlet pipe from the metre is still 25mm, the water holding capacity of the pipe has helped with water pressure in my house - I can now use the shower upstairs!
At the same time I have updated our antiquated borehole system - it was designed for 80 cows (not 250) so can’t keep up these days. I was given a load of IBC containers so bought some fittings and linked them all together to give 8000 litres of tank capacity (can be extended if needed). I feed this from the bore hole and the roof water and use a pump and pressure vessel combination to feed the troughs. Total spend has been around £500 so far and it appears to be working pretty well!

 

[Doing it for the kids]

What are you thinking would be the net gain of cutting the 20mm pipe a couple of meters away from the meter and adding the 32mm pipe, especially if the meter is connected to a 25mm feed from the trunk main?

im not sure but I don’t think you have any other option..

I just replaced our water pipe from the metre to the farm and houses. It’s 25mm at the metre but as I had a load of 63mm pipe from a previous job, I have installed that from the metre to the farm (about 500 metres). Although the inlet pipe from the metre is still 25mm, the water holding capacity of the pipe has helped with water pressure in my house - I can now use the shower upstairs!
At the same time I have updated our antiquated borehole system - it was designed for 80 cows (not 250) so can’t keep up these days. I was given a load of IBC containers so bought some fittings and linked them all together to give 8000 litres of tank capacity (can be extended if needed). I feed this from the bore hole and the roof water and use a pump and pressure vessel combination to feed the troughs. Total spend has been around £500 so far and it appears to be working pretty well!

as this post confirms.

id be getting a price for all 3 of my points and going from there. bet there is not a lot in it between tanks and pumps and new supply pipe / upgraded meter

 

[Ukjay]

I think you will find that welsh water will not give a flying fig ,they dont give a monkeys about their side of the tap let alone your side ,complete tstrokers ,they have disowned pipes here leaving 18 large houses on a 1 old 3/4 galvinised pipe ,you couldnt make it up

I could quite believe that, if the way supposed trades people here are anything to go by.... Never seen such blasé views to things..

 

[Ukjay]

as this post confirms.

id be getting a price for all 3 of my points and going from there. bet there is not a lot in it between tanks and pumps and new supply pipe / upgraded meter

To be in a position to make the correct decision, you need to understand the pressure / flow rate from the meter. Without that data, you cannot understand the potential head losses through the replacement pipe options you need to overcome to supply the same output from the meter, but yes, just using a bigger pipe will potentially gain as in the shower situation, as you have basically reduced the frictional losses with larger diameter pipes through lower fluid velocity, but you will gain no more in terms of l/min from what is coming through the meter, so in effect may be wasting money on too large a pipe if you had to buy it and not have it laying around.

In essence you cannot feed what is not there, so when dealing with multiple properties needing to feed of the same single pipe, if will not help overcome the demand influences when water demand is at the same time because for an example - a shower uses around 8 - 10 l/min, so two houses using a shower at the same time - nearly all your water capactiy is being used - so your 63mm pipe will not overcome that part of the equation unfortunately if your max supply is 20 l/min, hence a overview of the layout is a seriously important factor to design this correctly.

If this were my headache, I would dig down to the meter outlet to allow me access to the meter, check the max flow with a flow meter, plus the pressures. Only then would I know what I am up against for a situation like the OP's.
I could then work out the best most effective use of funds to get me what I need, and as for changing the meter / supply, the water board may not allow any larger - hence start with the basics before jumping in with larger pipes, that could increaee your outlay unnecessarily.

 

[Exfarmer]

A 20mm meter will should have 66 litre/min capacity. To run this 800 meters with 5 bar pressure you will need 63mm pipe. Best check your meter pressure before you start. you may be lucky and have better pressure but in a country setting it may be not so good.
Then there is the other issue of height. Are the properties above or below the meter, for every 33 feet height difference will be 1 Bar

 

[Jerry]

A 20mm meter will should have 66 litre/min capacity. To run this 800 meters with 5 bar pressure you will need 63mm pipe. Best check your meter pressure before you start. you may be lucky and have better pressure but in a country setting it may be not so good.
Then there is the other issue of height. Are the properties above or below the meter, for every 33 feet height difference will be 1 Bar

height gain from meter the end users is approx 10m

Looks like I will have to dig down to meter, which will be interesting as it’s on the side of a main road with no pavement and on a corner!

 

[Exfarmer]

height gain from meter the end users is approx 10m

Looks like I will have to dig down to meter, which will be interesting as it’s on the side of a main road with no pavement and on a corner!

You do not need to access that close to the meter a few feet of 20 mm will make little difference. I would suggest as others have done is that the first step is upping the pipe size, if that does not work a bigger meter.
When you say the height gain is ten meters ie 1 Bar , is that in favour or against you
if you have 6 bars at the end you would just get away with 50mm

 

[Jerry]

You do not need to access that close to the meter a few feet of 20 mm will make little difference. I would suggest as others have done is that the first step is upping the pipe size, if that does not work a bigger meter.
When you say the height gain is ten meters ie 1 Bar , is that in favour or against you
if you have 6 bars at the end you would just get away with 50mm

Against me. Meter is 10m below yard/properties

 

[Exfarmer]

Against me. Meter is 10m below yard/properties

If you test the pressure a word of warning, the pressure will drop as you draw water. This drop will vary considerably upon the size of your main

 

[Ukjay]

height gain from meter the end users is approx 10m

Looks like I will have to dig down to meter, which will be interesting as it’s on the side of a main road with no pavement and on a corner!

When you say height gain, do you mean your outlet is 10 mtr above meter?

 

[Ukjay]

You do not need to access that close to the meter a few feet of 20 mm will make little difference. I would suggest as others have done is that the first step is upping the pipe size, if that does not work a bigger meter.
When you say the height gain is ten meters ie 1 Bar , is that in favour or against you
if you have 6 bars at the end you would just get away with 50mm

If at all possible, take reference from the Meter, you have actual date to base calcs on.

 

[Ukjay]

If you test the pressure a word of warning, the pressure will drop as you draw water. This drop will vary considerably upon the size of your main

That is the difference between Static and Dynamic (working pressure)

Bigger pipes have less dynamic reduction obviously.