Wet heavy clay ground could be helpful info

[Old apprentice]

Hi this wet weather. I watched Glen rabenburg, on you tube he is selling a product to floculate heavy soil .I have resurched what it could be and I am quite convinced it is calcium chloride which could be sold in other chemical mixed in uk.

 

[PSQ]

Or just use calcium sulphate (recycled gypsum) which is FoC at the recycling plant.

 

[Brisel]

Fibrophos is rich in calcium.

 

[Flatlander]

Sounds like a product that was going to change the face of heavy tough ground here a few years back. not going to replace decent drainage or improve the structure imo

 

[Wisconsonian]

Calcium chloride is the most commonly advertised snake oil lately. Usually advertised as "liquid calcium" and raises pH better and faster than lime, and will eliminate sedge and other weeds. All without any evidence of benefit. I'd guess the CaCl would not have any benefit for your soil either.

 

[Brisel]

Chloride salts aren't usually very friendly to soil biology.

 

[Lincsman]

Its gypsum, but you needs lots, I have put on 10T/ac and you can just about see it helping, needs to be free though, maybe pay for spreading.

 

[deleted user 837354]

Sounds like a product that was going to change the face of heavy tough ground here a few years back. not going to replace decent drainage or improve the structure imo

Another cynic to the Albrecht system? Surely not.

 

[Bokey]

Iv heard lawn care men refer to it as drainage in a bag

 

[Wombat]

Gypsum is good but you need to apply it with a bulldozer

 

[Old apprentice]

I have no experience of the product but you would just spray it on .

 

[Brisel]

Gypsum is good but you need to apply it with a bulldozer

Plenty of folk apply it mixed with FYM (dry - wet manure can produce hydrogen sulphide when mixed with gypsum), otherwise it's a lime spreader job. Technically you are limited to 200 kg/ha in Scotland if it's PAS109 compliant and 1 t/ha in England

Storing and spreading gypsum waste to benefit land: LRWP 59

www.gov.uk

https://consultation.sepa.org.uk/operations-portfolio/the-use-of-gypsum-to-improve-soil-conditions/supporting_documents/170529%20Waste%20Gypsum%20Guidance.pdf

 

[teslacoils]

Its not worth pissing about with 1t/ha.

 

[Brisel]

Its not worth pissing about with 1t/ha.

Yeah, you need 10 times that really. The limit is to do with the sulphur content.

 

[teslacoils]

Yeah, big enough heap to justify a spreader for the day.

 

[Clive]

Yeah, you need 10 times that really. The limit is to do with the sulphur content.

50x more like really

 

[PSQ]

Plenty of folk apply it mixed with FYM (dry - wet manure can produce hydrogen sulphide when mixed with gypsum), otherwise it's a lime spreader job. Technically you are limited to 200 kg/ha in Scotland if it's PAS109 compliant and 1 t/ha in England

Storing and spreading gypsum waste to benefit land: LRWP 59

www.gov.uk

https://consultation.sepa.org.uk/operations-portfolio/the-use-of-gypsum-to-improve-soil-conditions/supporting_documents/170529%20Waste%20Gypsum%20Guidance.pdf

Another example of 'The Powers That Be' not knowing their arse from their elbows, and preferring to see a perfectly good product be dumped into landfill ,rather than it be legitimately used to improve yield, resource efficiency and the bottom line for thousands of rural businesses on high Mg clay soils.

I've used it on the 'blockiest' 10% of soil textures here, and it's made a fantastic improvement to 'workability' and yield.
1st application was at 1t/acre a long time ago, didn't make a lot of difference tbh.
2nd application was at 2t/acre and about 8 years later 'just before the new regs came in', and it was transformative. If you can chop off the bottom end of your average yield in each field, and move the whole curve towards increased sustainability and profitability, then what business has some ill informed bureaucrat in a cushy sinecure got to do with it?

I'm not sure it would do much for drainage though, thats a separate underlying problem altogether.

 

[Brisel]

In what way would drainage be affected @PSQ ?

 

[PSQ]

In what way would drainage be affected @PSQ ?

It wouldn't.

I'm not sure it would do much for drainage though, thats a separate underlying problem altogether.

To clarify, I meant it wouldn't do much to improve it, it doesn't have a detrimental effect on drainage.

While it improves texture of top soil, I can't see it doing a whole lot for permeability of subsoil. I mean it might help (I'm not a soil scientist), but as the gypsum isn't worked into subsoil like it is in the top soil I can't see that it would have a meaningful effect on subsoil porosity in the long term.

 

[Brisel]

It wouldn't.

To clarify, I meant it wouldn't do much to improve it, it doesn't have a detrimental effect on drainage.

While it improves texture of top soil, I can't see it doing a whole lot for permeability of subsoil. I mean it might help (I'm not a soil scientist), but as the gypsum isn't worked into subsoil like it is in the top soil I can't see that it would have a meaningful effect on subsoil porosity in the long term.

Thanks. I wondered what happened to the displaced magnesium. A better Ca:Mg ratio is supposed to improve workability but I guess altering subsoils' permeability requires a truly unfeasible amount.

We're back to pipes, gravel, a mole plough and the best soil biosphere we can create for that.