What are the rules about buying a plot with an old derelict stone building on it? Planning required to live in/do up or already intact by default?

[SoilHugger]

Is planning 'grandfathered' in from the existing ruin or has to be applied for again? If the latter is planning likely to be granted due to the history?

Seen one I like just within my budget with an old style stone shepherd's building. All four walls look fairly intact, no roof.

It is very rural and not tacked on to a village, maybe 1 mile or so, don't know the area but a village is mentioned in the advert. Does that make permission less likely as I have been informed that mostly they won't allow it for places that aren't on the edge of conurbations or will it being an existing structure change that?

What are the rules in this case?

 

[Nearly]

Not in a national park etc?

Could be a vendor looking for an optimistic idiot before the barn falls down entirely.

@George from SJM Planning

 

[GEMS]

no roof is the problem.
why do you see falling down barns with good rooves.

 

[SoilHugger]

Not in a national park etc?

Could be a vendor looking for an optimistic idiot before the barn falls down entirely.

@George from SJM Planning

No not nat park afaik. Should be a good way away from nearest one.

 

[SoilHugger]

no roof is the problem.
why do you see falling down barns with good rooves.

Is it a riddle?

Problem for me financially or problem legally? If the former I can easily improvise.

 

[GEMS]

No roof = derelict. No historical planning carried forward.
If roof present then its a property -or summat like that....

 

[SoilHugger]

I just had a quick read of an article on the subject and it seems my other surmise, that PP acceptance much higher even if making a new claim, is true due to it being an existing structure.

 

[GEMS]

I just had a quick read of an article on the subject and it seems my other surmise, that PP acceptance much higher even if making a new claim, is true due to it being an existing structure.

But without a roof it may not be accepted as an existing structure.

 

[Rich_ard]

Is planning 'grandfathered' in from the existing ruin or has to be applied for again? If the latter is planning likely to be granted due to the history?

Seen one I like just within my budget with an old style stone shepherd's building. All four walls look fairly intact, no roof.

It is very rural and not tacked on to a village, maybe 1 mile or so, don't know the area but a village is mentioned in the advert. Does that make permission less likely as I have been informed that mostly they won't allow it for places that aren't on the edge of conurbations or will it being an existing structure change that?

What are the rules in this case?

Are you still trying to out smart planning? How many ideas can you come up with. Buy a house with land and get on with life.

 

[George from SJM Planning]

If the building has no current use, hasn't had one in a while and is in need of repair then it will be classed as abandoned and have no lawful use - it will be as if there was never a building there in the first place.

 

[L P]

If the building has no current use, hasn't had one in a while and is in need of repair then it will be classed as abandoned and have no lawful use - it will be as if there was never a building there in the first place.

No current use according to who? Who goes and checks daily that such building is uninhabited, raised a lamb on a bad night maybe? Who judges it redundant without 24/7 illegal cctv?

 

[Devil's advocate]

If the building has no current use, hasn't had one in a while and is in need of repair then it will be classed as abandoned and have no lawful use - it will be as if there was never a building there in the first place.

Not to mention services & likely OP wants to extend the foot print.

 

[Rich_ard]

No current use according to who? Who goes and checks daily that such building is uninhabited, raised a lamb on a bad night maybe? Who judges it redundant without 24/7 illegal cctv?

Selling agents usually.

 

[br jones]

No current use according to who? Who goes and checks daily that such building is uninhabited, raised a lamb on a bad night maybe? Who judges it redundant without 24/7 illegal cctv?

In wales you have to prove usage as a house up yntil 2006 i belive (might be corrected by more knowledgeable people ) bu the form of rates being paid ,leccy bills ,and other means .if no payments are proved ,no house ,
2006 is definitive because of google earth i belive

 

[SoilHugger]

Are you still trying to out smart planning? How many ideas can you come up with. Buy a house with land and get on with life.

Hmm I had not thought of that actually. I had just presumed that any kind of house/cottage would be way out of my price range but having a look on the sites now without restricting only to land and it seems there are quite a few well within my budget (around 50kmax). Not sure about their status though as the ones I have seen so far look like they are gutted inside and in disrepair however have a roof.

I still don't understand how this all works. Are you only allowed to live in a fully functioning house? What is the point at which it is denoted as run down/derelict and requiring further PP? Is there not some middle ground where you can pick up a run down/unserviced building but still classed as a fully fledged dwelling that you can move right into?

I am trying to ascertain what the criteria are to actually be allowed to live in a house 'by the book'?

Could I find a tiny rural cottage for 50k or under which I am actually allowed to live in as a permanent residence?

Is it as mentioned above that it would have to have been lived in by someone within the last few years, even if roof on, to be allowed to do that? If that is the case it probably rules these ones out I have seen as they look like old shepherd's buildings or chapels and such.

 

[Nearly]

Not unreasonable to get permission for caravan on site until house refurbished. Perhaps limited to 3 years?

 

[Rich_ard]

Hmm I had not thought of that actually. I had just presumed that any kind of house/cottage would be way out of my price range but having a look on the sites now without restricting only to land and it seems there are quite a few well within my budget (around 50kmax). Not sure about their status though as the ones I have seen so far look like they are gutted inside and in disrepair however have a roof.

I still don't understand how this all works. Are you only allowed to live in a fully functioning house? What is the point at which it is denoted as run down/derelict and requiring further PP? Is there not some middle ground where you can pick up a run down/unserviced building but still classed as a fully fledged dwelling that you can move right into?

I am trying to ascertain what the criteria are to actually be allowed to live in a house 'by the book'?

Could I find a tiny rural cottage for 50k or under which I am actually allowed to live in as a permanent residence?

Is it as mentioned above that it would have to have been lived in by someone within the last few years, even if roof on, to be allowed to do that? If that is the case it probably rules these ones out I have seen as they look like old shepherd's buildings or chapels and such.

Not sure. But I can tell you iv spent more getting proper planning than if I'd bought a house ready to go. Derelict buildings will take money for ever. If you are short of money/not wanting to spend it. I'd think buying a habital house is the way to go. It might be a bigger out lay but you should be easier to get a mortgage on it. You won't for a Derelict building.
If it's just a punt then you have to take the chance and take what comes your way. Say you find a site that you really want to live at then can only try but it can get expensive. Once you start you can't get the money back either. No one will give you more fore a Derelict building with a failed planning application on it.

 

[Rich_ard]

Hmm I had not thought of that actually. I had just presumed that any kind of house/cottage would be way out of my price range but having a look on the sites now without restricting only to land and it seems there are quite a few well within my budget (around 50kmax). Not sure about their status though as the ones I have seen so far look like they are gutted inside and in disrepair however have a roof.

I still don't understand how this all works. Are you only allowed to live in a fully functioning house? What is the point at which it is denoted as run down/derelict and requiring further PP? Is there not some middle ground where you can pick up a run down/unserviced building but still classed as a fully fledged dwelling that you can move right into?

I am trying to ascertain what the criteria are to actually be allowed to live in a house 'by the book'?

Could I find a tiny rural cottage for 50k or under which I am actually allowed to live in as a permanent residence?

Is it as mentioned above that it would have to have been lived in by someone within the last few years, even if roof on, to be allowed to do that? If that is the case it probably rules these ones out I have seen as they look like old shepherd's buildings or chapels and such.

I like your thinking, I used to be similar, iv realised its not always cheaper though.

 

[suffolksmallholder]

Part of my smallholding was derelict and classed as uninhabitable, the other had no roof.
I spent nearly two years battling the local planners to renovate the derelict part and get a roof on the other. With a specialist Co behind me and with four sets of different plans we slogged on.
I went round the exterior of the derelict to make it watertight and started to repair the steading until a STOP notice arrived in the post. I was serious and so were the planners so we continued to butt heads.
Eventually I sent in the original drawings and two weeks later I received a rubber stamp accepting the proposals with the proviso that I treated the buildings as if they were ‘listed’
I saw several plots when I was looking around Lampeter and gleaned some stories as to why they were as they were. I even put a bid in on one derelict but the vendor wasn’t really serious in selling unless one was a cousin.
In 35 years since I was looking the planners are now very aware of the dodges folk try so I doubt you’d get much joy out of your quest.
SS

 

[SoilHugger]

Not unreasonable to get permission for caravan on site until house refurbished. Perhaps limited to 3 years?

Sure but doesn't that depend on the likelihood of being accepted. Or could you just make an application when the place didn't have a hope in hell of getting permission and live in the caravan all the while it takes to go through the system?

What about the 'trick' I have seen on youtube where you can buy agricultural land and apply to build a barn then you have 5 years or so to complete while only having to have started in order to live in a temp building on site. Then if not done by 5 years you start another building.