Health and safety

Jack Russell · May 17, 2019

I appreciate that this subject seems to be generally disliked and avoided by some, but with the focus that the NFU are putting on it currently and generally just as a sensible thing to be thinking about anyway could we have a sub heading for it on here. It’s seems to be only ever mentioned on here in a critical way but it would possibly help alter attitudes of some and the general farming culture by having it a bit more prominent on here? Just some where to be able to discuss it and suggest things that people have improved to help the job along.

Apologies for the rambling, I can’t seem to switch my heads on today. The power and influence this forum has would be a good place to have a section for it. If people still want to ignore it then they can choose to do that but it’s frightening when you here statistics such as 1 person killed every 9 days in our industry.

B'o'B · May 17, 2019

Good idea

paul&mandy · May 17, 2019

We have the nfu coming out next week to do a health and safety talk, no idea what its about other than we have to be there, even though we are not employees of the farm we are the main contractors there, and there on a daily basis with the sheep.

kiwi pom · May 17, 2019

paul&mandy said:
We have the nfu coming out next week to do a health and safety talk, no idea what its about other than we have to be there, even though we are not employees of the farm we are the main contractors there, and there on a daily basis with the sheep.

If you're a contractor there you'll still have to abide by their H&S rules which is probably why you have to go.
I've had to listen to quite a few over the years, if you get a good speaker who actually knows what they are talking about, it can be quite interesting and you might learn something.
If its someone just reading a basic cover your arse and over do everything script, it will be pointless.

paul&mandy · May 17, 2019

kiwi pom said:
If you're a contractor there you'll still have to abide by their H&S rules which is probably why you have to go.
I've had to listen to quite a few over the years, if you get a good speaker who actually knows what they are talking about, it can be quite interesting and you might learn something.
If its someone just reading a basic cover your arse and over do everything script, it will be pointless.[/

I have to go to a few with work I do, right from fire training to proper inductions.

Goweresque · May 17, 2019

The biggest thing the NFU (or indeed this forum) could do to help improve H&S on farms is to try and convince over 60 year old farmers that they are not 25 any more, or even 45, and as such should not be involved in the physical side of farm work, particularly on livestock farms.

And that everyone needs to accept the passing of time, and to have plans in place to either pass their farm on to the next generation (should they have one) or to sell up and retire in good time. This is the biggest H&S problem by far with farming - people are not prepared to have the hard conversations with themselves about their own age, increasing frailty and indeed mortality. We may as a society be living longer, however that does not mean that we are able to still do the same things at 65 or 70 that we could do at 30.

If we are to solve this high death rate of over 60s on farms it needs to become socially unacceptable for people to continue to put themselves into work situations where their reduced strength/reactions/visual perception puts them at significant danger. And that doing so is in fact selfishness at the expense of the people who will be left behind to deal with the trauma of a fatal accident.

neilo · May 17, 2019

Jack Russell said:
I appreciate that this subject seems to be generally disliked and avoided by some, but with the focus that the NFU are putting on it currently and generally just as a sensible thing to be thinking about anyway could we have a sub heading for it on here. It’s seems to be only ever mentioned on here in a critical way but it would possibly help alter attitudes of some and the general farming culture by having it a bit more prominent on here? Just some where to be able to discuss it and suggest things that people have improved to help the job along.

Apologies for the rambling, I can’t seem to switch my heads on today. The power and influence this forum has would be a good place to have a section for it. If people still want to ignore it then they can choose to do that but it’s frightening when you here statistics such as 1 person killed every 9 days in our industry.

I disagree. Putting it in a separate section would make the topic much easier to ignore, especially by those that perhaps need to take most notice.

Personally, I suspect it would become a very quiet section in no time at all.

B'o'B · May 17, 2019

neilo said:
I disagree. Putting it in a separate section would make the topic much easier to ignore, especially by those that perhaps need to take most notice.

Personally, I suspect it would become a very quiet section in no time at all.

Maybe a sticky thread in near the top of Agricultural Matters then?

neilo · May 17, 2019

B'o'B said:
Maybe a sticky thread in near the top of Agricultural Matters then?

Or just start a new thread when something relevant needs bringing up?

puppet · May 17, 2019

Goweresque said:
The biggest thing the NFU (or indeed this forum) could do to help improve H&S on farms is to try and convince over 60 year old farmers that they are not 25 any more, or even 45, and as such should not be involved in the physical side of farm work, particularly on livestock farms.

If we are to solve this high death rate of over 60s on farms it needs to become socially unacceptable for people to continue to put themselves into work situations where their reduced strength/reactions/visual perception puts them at significant danger. And that doing so is in fact selfishness at the expense of the people who will be left behind to deal with the trauma of a fatal accident.

As a livestock farmer over 60 could I suggest raising the driving age to 25 as that group seems to have a high accident and death rate.
People fall off mountains they have no need to climb, crash motorbikes by going too fast and die young through drink or drugs.
'They died doing what they loved or chose' is the usual comment.
I hope I would see more dangers than a teenage employee round the farm and have not yet become too careless to notice. No harm in stepping back every now and again to assess thi gs

David. · May 17, 2019

Perhaps title it something other than Health and Safety.
Cant only be me that switches off when that phrase is mentioned..
It as come to be shorthand for public liability box ticking and arse covering.
Genuine workplace safety issues certainly a good idea.

ollie989898 · May 17, 2019

I vehemently disagree with the notion that anyone over 60 should not be in active work in a farm environment. People who get outdoors to do a turn, particularly some moderately physical work, keeps them healthier overall than if they stayed in and watch fifteen to one all day.

Yes there is a risk to farm work, but it can be managed.

I believe Health and safety training should be mandatory at all FE colleges where agricultural or forestry training is conducted. To be fair to the chainsaw guys, they have a practical and very hands on approach to safety.

AndrewM · May 17, 2019

http://www.hse.gov.uk/agriculture/resources/pdf/good-farm.pdf

this is the booklet that hse is basing their current farm "visits" on

grainboy · May 17, 2019

There’s a risk every moment of the day, from the time you wake up,
Might skip a disc getting out of bed,
Might slip down the stairs because of the cat,
Might electrocute your self on the toaster,
Might trip over the dog at the back door,
And I’m not even at work yet,
As for Down grading 60 year olds work load, I have a problem because I’m 61, and still trying to get enough to retire.

nick... · May 17, 2019

I’m now 57 and still seem to be stuck in my 20s in my mind.there is a huge amount of stuff I struggle with but I’ve got no help so I have to soldier on.its a real struggle getting under machines to grease propshafts too,jcb telehandler.i absolutly hate not being able to do various things but I’m paranoid about getting hurt too.im intending to carry on till I’m 70 if I stay reasonably fit.for first time this year I’m having someone come in to service all my tractors,well both of em and telehandler.done a nfu health and safety day back in March and learnt a fair bit despite not wanting to do it.age creeps up but the body is not always willing unfortuantly.i suffer with a recently twisted knee that still gives me pain,along with both ankles,one damaged on building site accident and other broke in motorbike accident.also left shoulder hurts to carry stuff on it due to another motorbike accident.there are lots of people worse of so I’ll just carry on whilst I can
Nick...

tepapa · May 17, 2019

A lot of the h &s issues aren't age related. It's poor infrastructure and for example farmers going into handle cattle in pens with poor handling facilities because they're used to doing it. Age means they couldn't jump the gate out of the way but £15k on a handling system and they wouldn't need to be in the pen in the first place. Poor returns in farming limit investment and priority for shiney new tractors or pickups over gates.

ollie989898 · May 17, 2019

tepapa said:
A lot of the h &s issues aren't age related. It's poor infrastructure and for example farmers going into handle cattle in pens with poor handling facilities because they're used to doing it. Age means they couldn't jump the gate out of the way but £15k on a handling system and they wouldn't need to be in the pen in the first place. Poor returns in farming limit investment and priority for shiney new tractors or pickups over gates.

Exactly, and that being the case, their age is secondary to it- it's their mentality and attitude ultimately that determine the level of safety on their premises.

The industry, being as it is, should have a high level of awareness in terms of health and safety and everyone involved in it should have received formal training in it. The industry should also be insisting that as many people as possible are receiving enhanced first aid training, not just CPR but real-world first aid. NFU should be behind this.

Goweresque · May 17, 2019

ollie989898 said:
I vehemently disagree with the notion that anyone over 60 should not be in active work in a farm environment. People who get outdoors to do a turn, particularly some moderately physical work, keeps them healthier overall than if they stayed in and watch fifteen to one all day.
Yes there is a risk to farm work, but it can be managed.

The stats don't lie. Year after year half or more of the accidental deaths on farms are the over 60s. Given that over 60s do not form 50%+ of the agricultural workforce (ie those doing the day to day work) then that suggests that age is a very relevant issue when it comes to farm safety. Yet no one wants to address it, not in public anyway. We just keep having these H&S seminars of the type we've all attended where age is never mentioned.

I have no problem with the over 60s wanting to continuing working, and risking life and limb, as long as the rest of the industry are not continually targeted by the HSE as a result to 'improve farming's H&S record ' when the majority of the deaths are in effect a lifestyle choice by people who in any other line of work would either be retired or restricted to safer duties.

Why are there no H&S campaigns specifically targeted at the over 60s? To try and get them to address the risks that are specific to them? Why are we pretending that agricultural fatalities are distributed randomly, when they just aren't?

ollie989898 · May 17, 2019

I have no problem with the statistics, my point is that if you were to effectively ban the over 60s from working you would have a very significant and tangible negative effect on their physical and mental well being.

The risks posed by the industry can be managed and attitudes need to change, I accept that. Everyone in the industry should be a lot more safety conscious but to be fair a lot of farmers already do have a very acute awareness of safety in the workplace but not all.

DrWazzock · May 17, 2019

Some folks are "accident prone" some folks ain't. No amount of legislation and innquisition will change that.

Health and safety

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Up to 25%

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50-75%

75-100%

100% I’ve had enough of farming!

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