580G starter slow and drawing a lot of current

[Jsmith2211]

Brand new starter motor, new battery, connected battery to starter directly with jump wires are does the same thing. Turns over slowly and starter gets quite hot, plus the leads get warm like its drawing a lot of current. Anybody have any ideas? it was working OK before, parked it up in the field for a few days, put the battery on charge while it wasnt being used (have fitted it with an isolator switch now). When i came back it will only just turn it over. Engine runs sweet, breaths a bit but I don't see that it would have seized or anything, it has plenty of oil and everything

 

[Mur Huwcun]

Does the engine turn over ok using other means like a bar on flywheel ring gear? Couod it have coolant on top of pistons hydraulicing it? Could a hydraulic service be dead ending and putting it under strain? Otherwise it’s a dodgy starter. You could bridge the two large terminals on the starter to swing the starter without engaging the bendix with the ring gear to see how it spins

 

[335d]

When you say new starter, did it ever start ok with this starter, or have you just fitted it.

 

[Jsmith2211]

Does the engine turn over ok using other means like a bar on flywheel ring gear? Couod it have coolant on top of pistons hydraulicing it? Could a hydraulic service be dead ending and putting it under strain? Otherwise it’s a dodgy starter. You could bridge the two large terminals on the starter to swing the starter without engaging the bendix with the ring gear to see how it spins

i dont see how anything could have changed between it running fine a few days ago and now. How could the coolant end up on top of the pistons just through it sitting and how would i test for this? I connected the jump leads directly to the starter lug going straight into the starter motor and to the grounding lug on the front and it didnt spin up without connecting to the ring gear, is it supposed to do that? the powershuttle is in neutral and the spools all disengaged. It was running fine before, except for needing easy start to get going the first time, bit of white smoke then that clears up and then the engine runs as sweet as you could hope for.

When you say new starter, did it ever start ok with this starter, or have you just fitted it.

ran fine for a couple of months on this starter, but it needed jump starting sometimes because i think there is something draining the battery (hence the isolator installed). The only thing i have done between it running well before and now is the isolator switch, but i have tried removing that and putting it back how it was and it hasnt helped...

 

[Mur Huwcun]

i dont see how anything could have changed between it running fine a few days ago and now. How could the coolant end up on top of the pistons just through it sitting and how would i test for this? I connected the jump leads directly to the starter lug going straight into the starter motor and to the grounding lug on the front and it didnt spin up without connecting to the ring gear, is it supposed to do that? the powershuttle is in neutral and the spools all disengaged. It was running fine before, except for needing easy start to get going the first time, bit of white smoke then that clears up and then the engine runs as sweet as you could hope for.




ran fine for a couple of months on this starter, but it needed jump starting sometimes because i think there is something draining the battery (hence the isolator installed). The only thing i have done between it running well before and now is the isolator switch, but i have tried removing that and putting it back how it was and it hasnt helped...

Coolant issue could be head gasket. Has the coolant level dropped at all? If you can get 1 revolution out of the engine then there’s not much water on top of piston.

with battery connected in conventional way bridging the two large terminals on starter gives 12 to the motor but the solenoid is not energising and therefore not throwing the fork out to mesh with flywheel. It should spin easy and quick

 

[Jsmith2211]

Coolant issue could be head gasket. Has the coolant level dropped at all? If you can get 1 revolution out of the engine then there’s not much water on top of piston.

with battery connected in conventional way bridging the two large terminals on starter gives 12 to the motor but the solenoid is not energising and therefore not throwing the fork out to mesh with flywheel. It should spin easy and quick

well when i bridged those with a spanner it did spin up and sounded like it was quite speedy. But it was turning the engine over when i did it again... It turns the engine over OK its just far too slow to get it to start up.

 

[Mur Huwcun]

well when i bridged those with a spanner it did spin up and sounded like it was quite speedy. But it was turning the engine over when i did it again... It turns the engine over OK its just far too slow to get it to start up.

Then it’s not hydraulicing. What gets hot? Just the starter? If any connections gets hot that’s where your resistance is

 

[Jsmith2211]

Then it’s not hydraulicing. What gets hot? Just the starter? If any connections gets hot that’s where your resistance is

When i had the battery connected all of the connections were getting hot. The starter gets hot and the lugs going into the starter and on the solenoid etc all get hot as well. thats why i think its drawing a lot of current, because the leads and connections and all all get very hot. Also when i used the jump leads i bypassed all of those connections anyway so surely that wouldnt matter?

 

[Mur Huwcun]

It’s either a duff starter or a very stiff engine to turn over. I’d go for the starter first

 

[Jsmith2211]

It’s either a duff starter or a very stiff engine to turn over. I’d go for the starter first

duff starter after a couple of months? Was a genuine lucas one, supposed to be uprated as well

 

[spin cycle]

it's a case so par for course

 

[Jsmith2211]

it's a case so par for course

David brown engine, supposed to be bulletproof.

 

[335d]

Unfortunately ”genuine Lucas” is now an inferior product. Jubana, mahle or Iskra are much superior starters.
Bought a tractor that the Dealer had just fitted a new Lucas starter. I knew by the noise of the engine turning over, that it was too slow. After checking all connections, I fitted a Jubana, supplied by the local case ih dealer. Different animal all together. Tractor started instantly.
I know you will have checked this, but if the issue occurred at the time you added the isolator, I would be double checking connections. Remove wires and clean connections. Use copper grease.
Check that all crimps are tight, and that while fitting the isolator, an old cable hasn’t been kinked, breaking cores.
In a series circuit like a starter circuit, the current is the same in all wires. A high resistance at any connection will result in a voltage drop, so if you have a multimeter, measure the voltage at each connection from battery to starter.

 

[Jsmith2211]

Unfortunately ”genuine Lucas” is now an inferior product. Jubana, mahle or Iskra are much superior starters.
Bought a tractor that the Dealer had just fitted a new Lucas starter. I knew by the noise of the engine turning over, that it was too slow. After checking all connections, I fitted a Jubana, supplied by the local case ih dealer. Different animal all together. Tractor started instantly.
I know you will have checked this, but if the issue occurred at the time you added the isolator, I would be double checking connections. Remove wires and clean connections. Use copper grease.
Check that all crimps are tight, and that while fitting the isolator, an old cable hasn’t been kinked, breaking cores.
In a series circuit like a starter circuit, the current is the same in all wires. A high resistance at any connection will result in a voltage drop, so if you have a multimeter, measure the voltage at each connection from battery to starter.

Will be out with the multimeter tomorrow. Think i will replace the wires to the starter anyway because they aren't in great shape, even if that isnt the issue. I had the uprated starter from the local independant parts shop, but after 2 months if its knackered i guess thats my money up in smoke? As i said, i connected jump leads from my 575 directly to the starter because i thought maybe the isolator was the issue, but it still does it...

 

[335d]

When you connected the jump leads, was the isolator on or off.
To ensure all the power is going to the starter, and not charging the battery, it would be worth attaching the jump leads directly to the starter, with the isolator in the off position, and seeing if it turns over quicker.

 

[Jsmith2211]

When you connected the jump leads, was the isolator on or off.
To ensure all the power is going to the starter, and not charging the battery, it would be worth attaching the jump leads directly to the starter, with the isolator in the off position, and seeing if it turns over quicker.

took the battery off first, tried connecting the battery directly to the starter with the jump leads, then when that didnt work i tried it with the 135, when that didnt work i tried the 575 (seems to be better at jump starting for some reason). Nothing has worked. Just very slow, and the starter getting quite hot, jump leads heating up etc. Tried grounding it on the grounding strip (connected to one of the 3 bolt holes) and also on the grounding lug on the back of the starter, but neither worked.

 

[davidroberts30]

duff starter after a couple of months? Was a genuine lucas one, supposed to be uprated as well

Lucas are sh!t ask @ACEngineering for a high speed 1

 

[Jsmith2211]

Lucas are sh!t ask @ACEngineering for a high speed 1

High speed one is what i tried to replace it with, thought genuine lucas would be the thing to have, 135 and 575 both have the original lucas on them and they work perfectly. What brand would you recomend i got then, if i have to replace it? Also is there a way to know for tripple sure the starter has f**ked itself before i go and spend the money on YET ANOTHER brand new starter.......

 

[ACEngineering]

Brand new starter motor, new battery, connected battery to starter directly with jump wires are does the same thing. Turns over slowly and starter gets quite hot, plus the leads get warm like its drawing a lot of current. Anybody have any ideas? it was working OK before, parked it up in the field for a few days, put the battery on charge while it wasnt being used (have fitted it with an isolator switch now). When i came back it will only just turn it over. Engine runs sweet, breaths a bit but I don't see that it would have seized or anything, it has plenty of oil and everything

What starter motor did you fit on it.

 

[ACEngineering]

High speed one is what i tried to replace it with, thought genuine lucas would be the thing to have, 135 and 575 both have the original lucas on them and they work perfectly. What brand would you recomend i got then, if i have to replace it? Also is there a way to know for tripple sure the starter has fudgeed itself before i go and spend the money on YET ANOTHER brand new starter.......

Send me details of what you fitted, a pic of starter mounted will help to see what options will fit. Any new Lucas or copy Lucas are only worth there weight in scrap.