AB9 Acreage and direct drill

[stillfarm]

Thinking about applying for about 60 acres of AB9 in a Mid Tier application, it seems to be within the rules of the scheme but seems like a lot of acres to put down to the scheme on a 400 acre farm. Has anyone else done this?
We are thinking about direct drilling it next year into temporary grassland after an early first cut + roundup , is that a good approach?
When we take it back to wheat and grass in 5 years time will we get more of a problem with weeds?

Up until now we have always been fairly conventional farmers, the CS type schemes are a new direction for us so any help really appreciated, even if it seems obvious to you it probably isn't to us.

thanks

 

[Overby]

We've got 50 acres in this year, having had 30 for the last 3 on a different agreement. The main issue is having no bigger than 5ha blocks. I don't think there's any limit on total size and it should fit into ELMS aims when they're finalised anyway.

I believe you can DD it into grass after asking similar.

No idea re the return in 5 years though...who knows what may be happening by then.

 

[hally]

We've got 50 acres in this year, having had 30 for the last 3 on a different agreement. The main issue is having no bigger than 5ha blocks. I don't think there's any limit on total size and it should fit into ELMS aims when they're finalised anyway.

I believe you can DD it into grass after asking similar.

No idea re the return in 5 years though...who knows what may be happening by then.

They are encouraging it to be dd around here, done a fair bit myself.

 

[B R C]

Why not Ab15?
400ac here, 10 going into Ab9, 100ac Ab15 and 30ac Ab8.
Ab 9 will be sown each year so hopefully be able to keep on top of weeds

 

[Grass And Grain]

40% of farm in stewardship here.

 

[stillfarm]

All really useful replies, thanks.

AB15 does look sensible as well, hadn't given it much thought till now, so thanks for that tip.

About the DD into grass, how many litres of glyphosate per acre would be enough to knock the grass back enough for the AB8/9/15 sowing to take a hold?

 

[yellow belly]

check for wire worm or leather jackets

 

[Funny Farmer]

All really useful replies, thanks.

AB15 does look sensible as well, hadn't given it much thought till now, so thanks for that tip.

About the DD into grass, how many litres of glyphosate per acre would be enough to knock the grass back enough for the AB8/9/15 sowing to take a hold?

1ltr an acre should knock out grass.

 

[stillfarm]

thanks funny farmer, 0.7-1 litre is also what we were thinking, just enough to stop it smothering the new stuff.

thanks yellow belly for the headsup about the leather jackets. We don't normally have a big problem when we go from grass to cereals , but we leave it ploughed up for quite a while when we do, this will be our first time with DD, so maybe its more of a risk?
We were hoping that if we sow the AB9 in May leather jackets would be all asleep and by the time the new larvae wake up in the Autumn the new crop will be rough and tough enough. I guess the AB15 would be sown in September so possibly more risk than for AB9?

 

[Flat 10]

Why not Ab15?
400ac here, 10 going into Ab9, 100ac Ab15 and 30ac Ab8.
Ab 9 will be sown each year so hopefully be able to keep on top of weeds

Why?

 

[farmerm]

Heres a question I asked yesterday but havent seen a reply too...

Say wheat hits £250/t and suddenly AB9 starts to look less appealing, could you just plant wheat and not claim the AB9 part of your agreement in the years when it suits not to...?

 

[Flat 10]

Heres a question I asked yesterday but havent seen a reply too...

Say wheat hits £250/t and suddenly AB9 starts to look less appealing, could you just plant wheat and not claim the AB9 part of your agreement in the years when it suits not to...?

@Feldspar thinks so but I didn’t read it like that. I think you need 2% minimum if it’s true.

 

[Flat 10]

Why?

I meant why establish every year?

 

[farmerm]

@Feldspar thinks so but I didn’t read it like that. I think you need 2% minimum if it’s true.
[/QUOTE]
I guess our interpretation is almost irrelevant, natural England interpretation will be all that matters in any case where the rules are not crystal clear

 

[B R C]

I meant why establish every year?

It’s either every year or every other year if you have kale chicory or similar. I don’t think the second year would be successful here as the kale probably won’t establish well.

 

[Overby]

Heres a question I asked yesterday but havent seen a reply too...

Say wheat hits £250/t and suddenly AB9 starts to look less appealing, could you just plant wheat and not claim the AB9 part of your agreement in the years when it suits not to...?

Yes, just miss it off your claim. Better check the small print in case there's any minimum clauses.
Worst cast claim weather etc snookered drilling and you missed the window.
Be tricky though as you'd be guessing on the wheat price holding up....or hoping for a juicy forward contract

 

[farmerm]

Yes, just miss it off your claim. Better check the small print in case there's any minimum clauses.
Worst cast claim weather etc snookered drilling and you missed the window.
Be tricky though as you'd be guessing on the wheat price holding up....or hoping for a juicy forward contract

every autumn we put in seeds based on little more than the hope wheat price will hold up.... having an officially recognised option to take up or not take up agreed none crop options ELMs options on a year by year basis would be better for everyone!

 

[snarling bee]

Why not Ab15?
400ac here, 10 going into Ab9, 100ac Ab15 and 30ac Ab8.
Ab 9 will be sown each year so hopefully be able to keep on top of weeds

IME and IMHO there is no environmental option that is good for weed control, never has been, probably never will be.

 

[yellow belly]

Heres a question I asked yesterday but havent seen a reply too...

Say wheat hits £250/t and suddenly AB9 starts to look less appealing, could you just plant wheat and not claim the AB9 part of your agreement in the years when it suits not to...?

i would notdo that
In theory that is possible

but you have to give reasons for not having the area you have on the original application

if you are deemed not to have met the requirements of the application they can demand repayment of all the money paid for every year of the scheme

you could ask them detailing the scenario
it is most likely they will not confirm what you can do so leaving you with all the risk

my thoughts are that if you lock in to the scheme for 5 years and prices stay high landlords will want more rent based on high grain prices
it seems to me that every agent and many farmers are looking at big percentages of their farms or estates will be entered into non crop productive options
if 1 million acres is took out of the cropping area will this harvest be the biggest for the 2020s in terms of total tonnage produced leaving the uk as a net importer of grain