BG control by using a grass ley

[steveR]

I have a small 2.7ha block of heavy land that has been in arable production since the mid 80s. and has been contract farmed since 2010, that is now starting to have a small area or 2 of BG in it, probs brought in on a combine or hesston baler.

I am tempted to pop it into a 3-4 year high production ley as I could also do with the grass forage. Any suggestions on the best time to establish the ley, and what cultivation program to follow before getting the grass seeds on?

Secondly, how long would it take to see the BG gone using this technique?

 

[solo]

I established my grass less in the autumn post harvest as normal accepting that blackgrass would grow too. I cut for silage in year 1 before the blackgrass could shed viable seed. Grazed the aftermath with sheep and then the leys were blackgrass free in year 2 so made hay followed by grazing. The grass will remain in place for at least 5 years as I have found blackgrass quickly reappearing if the grass is only down for 3 years.

 

[teslacoils]

I put some grass in this autumn. Previously done it in spring. Spring was better, but much much reduced yr1 production.

 

[HarryB97]

Pretty much the same as @solo the first spring the field normally looks absolutley dreadful, full of blackgrass and not really worth mowing. We then normally end up topping it every 2-3 weeks till late summer as the blackgrass comes to head so fast we don't get more than one cut the first year. Grazing it would be best but we don't have enough stock to hit it fast enough. The second year and onwards the ley is near enough spotless and we get multiple cuts and treat it like normal. We establish ours in the autumn and noramlly disc it once or twice and sometimes a shallow pass with the power harrow before broadcasting it and rolling. We never establish in the spring as often it's very dry and you loose production at the time when you could be growing lots of grass

 

[steveR]

Thanks All

TBH, establishing a seedbed will be MUCH easier in the Autumn on this land, get the wheat straw cleared, subsoil tramlines and then two passes with discs. See what greens up Roundup if necessary and then disc or harrow for a seedbed.

I had not thought of grazing but could probably manage this come June.

 

[steveR]

I established my grass less in the autumn post harvest as normal accepting that blackgrass would grow too. I cut for silage in year 1 before the blackgrass could shed viable seed. Grazed the aftermath with sheep and then the leys were blackgrass free in year 2 so made hay followed by grazing. The grass will remain in place for at least 5 years as I have found blackgrass quickly reappearing if the grass is only down for 3 years.

That long!! It really is some bahstarted stuff isn't it!

What sort of Ley are you using? I was thinking a high yielding RG mix for baleage, but have found the problem with these leys on the clays, is the weaker grasses die off after 2-3 years and the sward gets patchy and stiching in is of limited use...

 

[teslacoils]

Ring up local shepherd for grazing. I'm getting less and less fussy about repeated topping in year one - volunteer cereals more annoying than BG. If you keep the grass short it doesn't seem to root as well. I'm going to tidy mine up early on; slop digestate on; get a decent cut or two of grass; then get some sheep on as long as possible.

 

[Pan mixer]

I have done this on several fields, a mix of cutting - definitely in the first year like above, and grazing.

Strangely it has worked better in some fields than others, the very worst field of Blackgrass in 2016 (last year of wheat) has still got lots despite being cut and grazed, the worst patch is where the geese graze it in the winter and I think that they are eating all the good grass that I have sown and leaving the Blackgrass to flourish as they don't like it.

I think you have to cut for silage before about May 10th to prevent the first flush of heads setting, the second lot is surprisingly soon after that certainly before the second cut of ryegrass would be ready heavy grazing then is the current plan.

Westerwold didn't compete enough and could provide an alternative arable weed in the future quite easily, Italian mixes, pernnial mixes and festololium mixes appear to dominate the Blackgrass, for me anyway

 

[tr250]

We sow in autumn then graze as soon as possible and periodically over winter to help tillering when weather allows. Also graze tight in spring until 1st April then cut late may. We never see another bg head after cutting. We do 2 year leys then for the last 4 years direct drill into wheat has worked extremely well apart from last year which I put down to cracking in the drought allowing bg to germinate

 

[solo]

That long!! It really is some bahstarted stuff isn't it!

What sort of Ley are you using? I was thinking a high yielding RG mix for baleage, but have found the problem with these leys on the clays, is the weaker grasses die off after 2-3 years and the sward gets patchy and stiching in is of limited use...

The grass seed mix was a versamix from @Great In Grass which was perennial ryegrass mainly with white clover. My aim was to make late hay after the 1st July fallow period from year 2 onwards. The mix has done well on a clay loam but the clover has become very prolific this year which I’m quite content with. Tack sheep are currently grazing it quite tight. I’m now in years 3 and 4 this time having done a similar approach around 2010 but got in a buggers muddle with the 2012 wet autumn which let blackgrass get out of control.

 

[steveR]

I have done this on several fields, a mix of cutting - definitely in the first year like above, and grazing.

I think you have to cut for silage before about May 10th to prevent the first flush of heads setting, the second lot is surprisingly soon after that certainly before the second cut of ryegrass would be ready heavy grazing then is the current plan.

Westerwold didn't compete enough and could provide an alternative arable weed in the future quite easily, Italian mixes, pernnial mixes and festololium mixes appear to dominate the Blackgrass, for me anyway

Interesting that the BG flushes a 2nd set of heads so quickly... Past experience on this land has been 4 cuts is achievable, starteing early May, Mid /late June, then see what rainfall we get for 3 and 4!

 

[steveR]

The grass seed mix was a versamix from @Great In Grass which was perennial ryegrass mainly with white clover. My aim was to make late hay after the 1st July fallow period from year 2 onwards. The mix has done well on a clay loam but the clover has become very prolific this year which I’m quite content with. Tack sheep are currently grazing it quite tight. I’m now in years 3 and 4 this time having done a similar approach around 2010 but got in a buggers muddle with the 2012 wet autumn which let blackgrass get out of control.

Hmmm, while I am becoming more of a fan of clover, I still have less than fond memories of bloat in cattle on the same land from wild white clover! I tend to be VERY sparing of clover in the mixes!

 

[teslacoils]

While I'm not saying they don't set seed, the more you cut it, the lower and smaller the subsequent seed heads are. Any shed seed then has to compete with established grasses, which they don't do well. Add in a winter if sheep and that's why I think you can be a little less inclined to scalping it too often if it's going to be down a few years.

I'm using a mix of late prg - this one called Century by Oliver seeds. I foolishly forgot to ask for the no clover mix. Clover adds nothing to what I want and the early blw control will probably nick nack it anyway.

Mine will be followed, although seemingly quite far in the future from now, with winter beans then three cereals. Or it may even stdt as grass.

 

[steveR]

Ring up local shepherd for grazing. I'm getting less and less fussy about repeated topping in year one - volunteer cereals more annoying than BG. If you keep the grass short it doesn't seem to root as well. I'm going to tidy mine up early on; slop digestate on; get a decent cut or two of grass; then get some sheep on as long as possible.

Have to come across the Border don't they.... !

 

[teslacoils]

You might get better £££ for them than we do.

 

[farmerm]

Just be careful you don't replaced herbicide tolerant BG with herbicide tolerant ryegrass What the survivability of a blackgrass seed? Think I read is it something like 11 years but with an 80% decline in viable seeds each year a 4 year ley would certainly lesson the problem, just make sure you pull every last one that survives to the end of May in subsequent crops or you will soon be back to square 1.

 

[teslacoils]

Behind every problem, there is a solution which itself causes another problem.

 

[D14]

I have a small 2.7ha block of heavy land that has been in arable production since the mid 80s. and has been contract farmed since 2010, that is now starting to have a small area or 2 of BG in it, probs brought in on a combine or hesston baler.

I am tempted to pop it into a 3-4 year high production ley as I could also do with the grass forage. Any suggestions on the best time to establish the ley, and what cultivation program to follow before getting the grass seeds on?

Secondly, how long would it take to see the BG gone using this technique?

If its of any use we grassed down some 2 years ago that was starting to get bad. In that time we haven't found a single BG plant and neither has our agronomist. What we don't know at this stage is if we revert it to arable what will happen. The idea is 4 years of grass so we will see. We are selling silage in June, then Hay in September and then its got sheep on it over winter. Total income the last 2 years had been around £400/acre before costs which are minimal (seed which lasts 4 years, 160kg N, 1 x fungicide) so its a nice earner. Sadly there is no call for lots of it otherwise we would grass more down.

 

[GeorgeK]

After my grass ley I'm hoping to direct drill with minimal disturbance to avoid dragging up buried BG seed as surely most of the seeds in the top inch or two that could have germinated would have after 5 years. The ground cracks well and self structures so hopefully no need for deep cultivation and it has red clover which has good deep roots so I intend to leave the BG buried for a few extra years for maximum seed reduction

 

[rob1]

Having used grass as a break from arable since 2012the things I have learnt are to cut it between 25th may and 10th june, earlier and it just sends up new heads very quickly cut tool late and seed is viable, remember bg is an annual and like cereals if it is cut once some of its seeds have set it will die, if cut before this point in its life cycle it will send out more seed heads very quickly,obviousl it needs cutting before set seed becomes viable
Once BG numbers have been reduced dont touch the soil, DD into it, any soil movement will disturb more BG seed and undo a lot of the good work.
We have found very little benefit in doing two year leys over one year ones, we have a bit of a farm trial here more by accident than intention. a 16 acre field was part westerwold last year and part spring oats, the grass bit had lots of BG this spring but thankfully the weather was kind and we managed to cut it twice before seed became viable,the SO part was sprayed of in early/mid march it had a fair bit of BG at the time it was drilled at the end of march, it was very thick and smothered out any new seed, I saw very littleBG in it when spraying off the oat volunteers before part of it was drilled with winter barley,the rest of the oat section and all the grass part was drilled with wheat three weeks ago. It willinteresting to see what the BG is like next year. None of the field has had any herbicide this autumn yet