Cattle tagging regulation change?

[Hfd Cattle]

I'm not sure what makes 40 cows small ......how patronising! The success in farming is not the quantity of animals or acres but the way you do it. I am in total agreement with JP1 and I bet he / she knows their animals inside out. I'm not sure whether the BIG Mo! puts me in the big or small category or how I should qualify to be In either category but I do know the current system works for me and as I said earlier if something isn't broke why fix it ..... secondly The BIG MO! ,when asked for evidence that the sysyrem is broke, says 'I'm only repeating what I've heard" . My business is based on fact and reality not idle gossip with no substance. Is that what makes me small...because I don't dream up BIG ideas !!
Rant Over !!!

 

[Henarar]

Talk of FMD when you're against the 6 day standstill is pretty ripe.
If it had been in place before Feb 2001, a lot of pain might've been spared.

It's a nuisance, but serves a very good purpose.

And if you don't see the irony in the phrase 'larger trading farms' perhaps you need to take a step back and ask why gov needed to put such things in place.
Perhaps you need to look in the mirror, I don't know.
And while you're free to dismiss JPs opinions because he's a 'small farmer' whose opinions evidently don't count, do mine count?
(I see I've now set something like 4500 tag numbers in home bred calves ears on my hobby farm).

We've been here before I believe Mo.
You think electro-tags will be wonderful, I think they'll be a pain in the butt.
The sheep EIDs do nothing for me, merely adding expense and giving gov inspectors another stick to beat me with.
You seem to think they'll work in the real world, and that dropping an envelope of passports in the mud is a problem.
I'm quite confident that the new system won't work any better, and the gadgets that get dropped in the shite/slammed against the headstock etc will be harder fixed than some dirty bits of paper.


I deal with - generally through missus Egbert- any number of gov departments. And BCMS are a shining light of efficiency and common sense against any of them.
We must see and measure the world very differently, you and I.

the more movements on and off a holding the more risk there is to spread things like F and M simple fact
are we heading back to the days when a dealer would have the same animal in a different market several times a week just looking for a few quid extra as there will be nothing to stop it

 

[Hfd Cattle]

The original 21 days was over the top but the existing 6 day rule serves a good purpose. No need to move it .

 

[Agrivator]

It's useful to find out that it is worth 50 quid less than you thought because it has already been on 4 farms...info which could have been on the marts website the night before.

What is really so great about having a mucky peice of paper?

CTS is always out of date, it is just too slow, if we had another F&M then you would realise that we don't actually know where a lot of cattle are.

As I understand it medicine records will not be part of the system. This is a missed opportunity in my mind, it would allow finishers to see what treatments the animal has had and the breeder to see health data for animals that have left the farm. Perhaps then I won't get as many Johnes cases? Or animals that look OK then go downhill fast when their pneumonia comes back. Or the surprise when your vet makes an exploratory incision and finds a row of stitches...

Over the years I have sold thousands of store cattle, and most of the skilled professional feeders who buy them have no interest in the medical history. The few that ask are only interested in whether or not they have been recently dosed.
And I can answer that as I (reluctantly) hand over a bit of luck.

 

[mo!]

I'm not sure what makes 40 cows small ......how patronising! The success in farming is not the quantity of animals or acres but the way you do it. I am in total agreement with JP1 and I bet he / she knows their animals inside out. I'm not sure whether the BIG Mo! puts me in the big or small category or how I should qualify to be In either category but I do know the current system works for me and as I said earlier if something isn't broke why fix it ..... secondly The BIG MO! ,when asked for evidence that the sysyrem is broke, says 'I'm only repeating what I've heard" . My business is based on fact and reality not idle gossip with no substance. Is that what makes me small...because I don't dream up BIG ideas !!
Rant Over !!!

I'm not sure where you get the idea that I think I'm a BIG farmer? We consider ourselves small, plenty of outfits round here doing 10-20 times as many cattle as us. We can only support two family members at that. I have respect for what @JP1 does and have met him in the flesh, calling his farm small is not an insult.

I'm not sure how I could have better information? I am not a computer expert and I haven't access to the innards of the BCMS database, perhaps you have? I trust that the experts and industry leaders who explained to me that it was failing are correct. Maybe I should have worn my foil helmet?

 

[Hfd Cattle]

The insinuation in your posts give the impression that you think the current system is ok for 'small' farms but it doesn't suit you ,i.e. comments like "small farmers like yourself" instead of saying "us smaller farmers" or "farmers like us !" Therefore by your own recognition you put yourself in a 'big' farm category.
Time to move on before someone mentions Brexit ! .....well it gets into every other debate !

 

[KennyO]

If you're working through a race or crush it takes a few seconds to scan a tag with a reader, you can even do them as they walk past you in the shed if you want, then just add treatment details to that group, much as you would in a medicine book

What tag reader do you use? I have been meaning to get one.

 

[The truth]

Letters are a rather expensive way to communicate with members on individual issues. Hopefully you get BFG

So is having industry pay millions for a system that has been shown to numerous livestock steering groups after the NFU, Red Tractor and Tesco all decided it wasn't appropriate. industry is moving on and some of the technology being showcased at the moment is light years ahead of what is being proposed by the officials. We loved the idea of having free eartags, real time movement records and no need for EID readers, was refreshing to see simple and well thought out system that its hard to see a way of fiddling.

 

[Gulli]

What tag reader do you use? I have been meaning to get one.

Pen and paper
When we switch it will probably be a shearwell stick reader as I already use their tags and stockmove app. But no point shelling out until we find out what the tags will be like etc.

Have used psions and various others readers in the past and the less time I spend farting about trying to read flag tags that you can't ever see the better!

 

[The truth]

Seen at a presentation last year a working system that was reading tags directly from smartphone no readers needed. The chaps presenting showed us it working and that there is no need for EID at all. Apparently they took the system to NFU and Red tractor as it also made it impossible to steal an animal as it would flag up in the system by not being in same location as it was when last read. They where even giving the tags for free. Not of interest though as a not many members or farmers use smart phones!! Seems great to us but what do I know only a farmer!

 

[Henarar]

Seen at a presentation last year a working system that was reading tags directly from smartphone no readers needed. The chaps presenting showed us it working and that there is no need for EID at all. Apparently they took the system to NFU and Red tractor as it also made it impossible to steal an animal as it would flag up in the system by not being in same location as it was when last read. They where even giving the tags for free. Not of interest though as a not many members or farmers use smart phones!! Seems great to us but what do I know only a farmer!

I would think more farmers use smart phones than have stick readers, I do for a start

 

[cattleman123]

the more movements on and off a holding the more risk there is to spread things like F and M simple fact
are we heading back to the days when a dealer would have the same animal in a different market several times a week just looking for a few quid extra as there will be nothing to stop it

How can you spread F/M when its not around ...you cant make it

 

[Henarar]

How can you spread F/M when its not around ...you cant make it

I never said you could

 

[cattleman123]

I never said you could

But did say you could spread it...didt you

 

[The truth]

heres a question, with the new proposed regs and system if foot and mouth popped up the week after it was rolled out would we be able to stop it any quicker or more effectively than last time?

 

[Raider112]

Just been selling Hoggs over the last month or two and over 20% of them needed replacement tags put in so apart from having no traceability any medicine records would also be useless. What happens when cattle lose these heavier tags? do we still have to double tag? add the normal tag loss to the potential 20% heavier tag loss and a field of 100 cattle could have 3 or 4 with no ID by the end of the summer.

 

[Raider112]

heres a question, with the new proposed regs and system if foot and mouth popped up the week after it was rolled out would we be able to stop it any quicker or more effectively than last time?

The answer is yes, but it would also be yes under the current system. Would the new one be any better than the current one? probably not.

 

[Henarar]

But did say you could spread it...didt you

if there were no livestock movements it wouldn't move very far or fast

 

[mo!]

The answer is yes, but it would also be yes under the current system. Would the new one be any better than the current one? probably not.

The new system should be more up to date and more accurate. Of course they key would be immediate and total cessation of animal movements, which didn't happen last time. Any system is only as good as the data put into it (which eid should improve) and the way it is operated.

 

[The truth]

the bit that i liked was that the location of the animal was locked in when it was registered. The chap made a good point when said if you cant prove where the animal started everything else is not proveable, they then showed registering an animal and locking in the location using a smart phone that was impossible to tamper with. Made a lot of sense