Closing the Front Door

[ollie989898]

I used to be the in house consultant for hazardous area electrical equipment.. All this meant was that I had read the relevant British Standards and got my head around the various explosion protection systems, certification etc. After a month or so I had it at my finger tips but I was paid the same as all the other engineers.
Yet now people set them up as consultant in such and such and expect to be paid twice as much as everybody else. I don't really get it. Same with accountants and solicitors. Yes, its a specialist job but so is a nutrient management plan.
I find folks generally charge not in proportion to the difficulty of the work and certainly not in proportion to the value they bring but in accordance with how far over a barrel they have you. Sadly I find this thread slightly gloating at the business owners predicament and the power these "clipboards" now wield over such people. Slightly sad really.
I'd say either get on with it or move on but no need to keep turning the knife.

Unfortunately you are describing the very essence of what I call 'fudge you' Britain and I can assure you it is far from only 'consultants' that do it. I bet the forum will provide 100 examples of various tradesmen who are precisely the same. Try finding a plumber to fix a leaking loo. I wish you luck.

 

[Highland Mule]

If you are good at anything it looks easy, but to be good takes experience, experience takes time. Thats what you pay for, or at least thats what my lawyer says.

Yup, and something that is to be officially submitted has got to look good as well as actually being good. How many can actually write proper, unambiguous, technical English of a standard needed for a legal document?

Come to think of it, how many get help from a consultant for their BPS applications?

Whilst @DrWazzock may have the abilities to do these, I don’t think all out there do, and not do I think the amount per hour is excessive - if anything it’s actually good value compared to many similar fields.

 

[deleted user 436632456]

One of the interesting things I often note on TFF is how attitudes or opinions differ across the spectrum of members here.

In this instance, some members seem to be of the opinion that a guy serving up steaming bowls of verbal abuse over the phone would be acceptable in their view based on whatever circumstances or problems the individual may be facing at the time. This is an entirely understandable opinion and it is true that some people face stressful circumstances and may react in a way that is quite out of character for them.

This of course contrasts hugely with, say, how a managing director would fare if he offered the same kind of abuse to a shareholder, customer or even a member of his own staff. In some big companies, who value their organisational beliefs more than any individual they may employ, the individual in question may well be obliged to clear his desk by 9am the following morning as a result of his actions.

Interesting to see how members interpret the situation I must say.

I can deal with difficult customers because I still have some,

What I can’t stand and why I’m a bit confused is.. he called me a b@llocks and a few other choice bits of french and then realised a year later “hold on I need this mans help”

 

[Thick Farmer]

Kill him!

 

[deleted user 436632456]

Kill him!

Then I would have to start a thread complaining about the price of hitmen, it’s just a vicious circle

 

[DrWazzock]

Yup, and something that is to be officially submitted has got to look good as well as actually being good. How many can actually write proper, unambiguous, technical English of a standard needed for a legal document?

Come to think of it, how many get help from a consultant for their BPS applications?

Whilst @DrWazzock may have the abilities to do these, I don’t think all out there do, and not do I think the amount per hour is excessive - if anything it’s actually good value compared to many similar fields.

I don’t class myself as particularly bright, about middle of the road really. I often get the impression that many services charged at £250 per hour by a professional could be enacted by a technician on £25/hr. Routine uncomplicated legal processes such as land conveyance and registration don’t seem that difficult to me and with shopping around we have found legal practices who do delegate such routine work to staff on a much lower charge rate. Some though are happy to take us for a long and costly ride at top rates, looking for problems and creating work. Same with accountants. Top rate charging is only really needed for the complex stuff.
I am forever grateful that my parents always tackled the paperwork for the IACS themselves and didn’t employ an agent. So we kept up with changes and the move to a digital platform, still completing it ourselves.
Some professional jobs do require real skill and a high IQ. But many jobs, as my maths teacher used to say are just about teaching monkeys to do tricks. I’d put a lot of what I do in that category. Not much original thought needed!

 

[DrWazzock]

I can deal with difficult customers because I still have some,

What I can’t stand and why I’m a bit confused is.. he called me a b@llocks and a few other choice bits of french and then realised a year later “hold on I need this mans help”

He needs your help. You are in a good position. Crack on and help him. Forget about his personality. Think about your contribution to his business. Focus on that. With agricultural contracting I find it’s better to concentrate on the job itself than worry about the “customer”. Helps to think of the farm or business as an extension of your own business rather than it belonging to the customer. You are there to help the business.

 

[T7.wab]

Professionalism or respect is a two way street in my world, I’ve done the one way street before.. it doesn’t work.
Whatever I chose to do, he is probably going to bad mouth me, even if I chose to volunteer to do it for free, he will probably complain that it took me over 1 year to do.

I just like hearing people’s opinions and views on different subject matters.

Go on then tell us what you quoted and i will tell you my opinion

 

[Johnnyboxer]

The bloke isn't a customer. Yet.

I was generalising

 

[roscoe erf]

option A all day long never a great start and it wont end well

 

[deleted user 436632456]

Go on then tell us what you quoted and i will tell you my opinion

Competitively - considering price and value.

Consultants are hired because you don't want to do it/you don't have time to do it/you don't have the technical ability to do it or require specialist knowledge to do it (delete as appropriate)

I quoted for approx150 hrs of work. I have included the time it takes to build templates etc as I have these already. I'm predicting about 60-70,000 words all in for all documents required.

There will be persons out there more than capable of doing this themselves for their business within the same timescale I'm predicting.

But, Lets say you lack computer ability, you type with one finger and have to spend hours on google just to do research, this could quite easily become a 300/400/500 hr task, what's your time worth? will you resent every hour spent in the office? Do you have the spare time required?
The value = what your time is worth per hour multiplied by how long it will take to complete.

 

[T7.wab]

Competitively - considering price and value.

Consultants are hired because you don't want to do it/you don't have time to do it/you don't have the technical ability to do it or require specialist knowledge to do it (delete as appropriate)

I quoted for approx150 hrs of work. I have included the time it takes to build templates etc as I have these already. I'm predicting about 60-70,000 words all in for all documents required.

There will be persons out there more than capable of doing this themselves for their business within the same timescale I'm predicting.

But, Lets say you lack computer ability, you type with one finger and have to spend hours on google just to do research, this could quite easily become a 300/400/500 hr task, what's your time worth? will you resent every hour spent in the office? Do you have the spare time required?
The value = what your time is worth per hour multiplied by how long it will take to complete.

Should be a MP with an answer like that

 

[deleted user 436632456]

Should be a MP with an answer like that

Haha, I don't know if that was a compliment or not
But I'm taking it

 

[ollie989898]

I don't see why anyone should be forced to divulge figures on a forum. That's commercially sensitive material.

To type 60,000 or 70,000 words I would want a lot of money as it will be dull as fudge no matter what is involved.

 

[Danllan]

I can deal with difficult customers because I still have some,

What I can’t stand and why I’m a bit confused is.. he called me a b@llocks and a few other choice bits of french and then realised a year later “hold on I need this mans help”

I've had a few like this in the past. If they have just had a verifiable personal disaster - e.g. wife just died etc. - I will cut them some slack, but tell them that although I sympathise with their situation and we all lose our tempers sometimes, I'll not accept any further bad behaviour but will carry on following an apology.

The others, who just act like ars*holes and then realise they really do need you... I would not return their abuse but merely quote it directly back to them, and then state that I have no interest in working with or on behalf of anyone behaving in such a way.

 

[Johnnyboxer]

Competitively - considering price and value.

Consultants are hired because you don't want to do it/you don't have time to do it/you don't have the technical ability to do it or require specialist knowledge to do it (delete as appropriate)

I quoted for approx150 hrs of work. I have included the time it takes to build templates etc as I have these already. I'm predicting about 60-70,000 words all in for all documents required.

There will be persons out there more than capable of doing this themselves for their business within the same timescale I'm predicting.

But, Lets say you lack computer ability, you type with one finger and have to spend hours on google just to do research, this could quite easily become a 300/400/500 hr task, what's your time worth? will you resent every hour spent in the office? Do you have the spare time required?
The value = what your time is worth per hour multiplied by how long it will take to complete.

Well said, agree with that
I leave stuff to people who know how to do a task, better than me

 

[T7.wab]

Haha, I don't know if that was a compliment or not
But I'm taking it

I would be more surprised if a northern irish farmer didnt swear when he was quoted 1000s for anything

 

[marshbarn]

Competitively - considering price and value.

Consultants are hired because you don't want to do it/you don't have time to do it/you don't have the technical ability to do it or require specialist knowledge to do it (delete as appropriate)

I quoted for approx150 hrs of work. I have included the time it takes to build templates etc as I have these already. I'm predicting about 60-70,000 words all in for all documents required.

There will be persons out there more than capable of doing this themselves for their business within the same timescale I'm predicting.

But, Lets say you lack computer ability, you type with one finger and have to spend hours on google just to do research, this could quite easily become a 300/400/500 hr task, what's your time worth? will you resent every hour spent in the office? Do you have the spare time required?
The value = what your time is worth per hour multiplied by how long it will take to complete.

What use are these 70000 word reports nobody in charge will read them and definatly no workers will read them, just another useless tome of useless paper.

 

[Kidds]

What use are these 70000 word reports nobody in charge will read them and definatly no workers will read them, just another useless tome of useless paper.

It could very nearly make you swear couldn't it.
Or as my Granpa used to say "It's enough to make the parson curse".

 

[Hampton]

Just be honest.
Say you will requote but didn’t like the way he spoke to you before. Insist on a part payment on start of work and if tell him if he ever speaks to you like that again you walk away from the job immediately.
Set your stall out and take back the power in the relationship.