Closing the Front Door

[deleted user 436632456]

What use are these 70000 word reports nobody in charge will read them and definatly no workers will read them, just another useless tome of useless paper.

Auditors is the simple answer, some will read it word for word.

If you want to go for tenders, a possible major requirement is ISO 9001, The person marking the tender doesn't want to hear about how much of a load of cr@p ISO 9001 really is, they just want to see your ISO 9001 documents and tick the box that you have a quality management system in place.

That's the reality.

 

[som farmer]

What use are these 70000 word reports nobody in charge will read them and definatly no workers will read them, just another useless tome of useless paper.

just look at it like this, a very complicated way, to tick a box, or boxes.
They only come into effect if a problem arises.
we did a cossh assessment, 25/30 years ago, any one asks, i just bring out file - well done, the comment, they might open the file, and glance, nothing more, just another box ticked.

 

[ollie989898]

It's hardly the OP's fault that all this material is required is it? No one is putting a gun to your head and saying you need to be a food outlet, AD plant operator or any of the above. If it's not worth the aggro to start and operate a business within the regulations, then don't do it- it's a free country.

 

[Renaultman]

Then I would have to start a thread complaining about the price of hitmen, it’s just a vicious circle

Why use a professional, when you could do it yourself

 

[Will 1594]

Auditors is the simple answer, some will read it word for word.

If you want to go for tenders, a possible major requirement is ISO 9001, The person marking the tender doesn't want to hear about how much of a load of cr@p ISO 9001 really is, they just want to see your ISO 9001 documents and tick the box that you have a quality management system in place.

That's the reality.

All that is rubbish ,,,no i did not say rubbish b0l1ocks ,, thoughtbitbwas more to do with how big the brown envelope ,or car or holiday was ,with a lot of tenders

 

[DrWazzock]

Hmmm ISO9000. Saw a lot of that in industry. Ended up needing a department of 20 people to administer it. Thousands of pages of bumf, that nobody had time to read. All sorts of initiatives from TQM to JIT. Consultants came and went away again with lots of money. Meanwhile the engineering department ploughed on under a smoke screen.
I remember an oil tanker being stuck out at sea because a turbine had shutdown. It needed a small simple software mod to get it going again. They rang me at 4 o’clock on Friday afternoon to ask me to send the mod over. Sorry, no can do, we need a full meeting of the design change approval committee now before any software modification can be released then two days to complete the paper trail and sign offs. Result was BP Australia incurred a £1 million penalty and put us on their supplier blacklist. Just one of the reasons returned to farming and gave up on industry. The sad thing is it’s taking over farming as well and I’m not sure for how much longer we can keep the tide of this sort of rubbish out here.

 

[DrWazzock]

At one time your signature as a chartered professional was enough. You were trusted. Nobody is trusted anymore. Blind procedure replaces trust. Well as it says in the front of the wiring regs, “rules are for the blind obedience of fools, but the guidance of wise men.
My accountant packed up for the same reason. “Why are you leaving?” I asked. And he placed a thousand page manual on the desk. He bought a row of buy to let’s, and moved to the South of France, and faced with this sort of tripe who could honestly blame him?

 

[som farmer]

i understand there are now degree courses, on how to tick boxes correctly. You can also do a masters course, to get a phd, on how to correct those, who cannot manage to get the tick, exactly in the centre of the box. So far, this has been 100% funded by the EU, however, due to brexit, this funding will no longer be available. However, this course, is so important, the civil service, has set up a new quango, to see how the money, can be allocated, to fund these courses. The 25 members of the quango, and their staff, are seeking funding of £3 billion, so this essential service can be continued, and expanded.

 

[Steevo]

Consultants are hired because you don't want to do it/you don't have time to do it/you don't have the technical ability to do it or require specialist knowledge to do it (delete as appropriate)

I agree with this to a point.

Same used to be true of many trades too - everyone had their place. You need a plumber, hire one. Need some wiring done, get an electrician. At some point in life we all need the help of each other no matter how skilled we are.

Sadly today a lot of jobs have been embellished and it becomes like @DrWazzock stated about solicitors. We now have "technicians", "engineers" and "managers". Customers risk getting ripped off and the trust goes out of the job. A man out paid £15/hr to do a job is charged at £100/hr purely because he has been taught to do a particular trick that was designed to be complex enough that only a specialist with the training course, tools and/or specific manual is able to carry it out.

Not relating directly to the scenario in the OP at all, but it's one way I feel society has progressed backwards.

We're all in this together. It's worth customers and suppliers all remembering that.

 

[Foxcover]

If you don’t need the money then decline saying you are too busy.
My first couple of years in business I worked for anybody, whether I liked them or not.
Now I’m established I regularly turn work away saying I am too busy, once I have done background checks on them to see whether they pay/don’t badmouth/make a good cuppa.
Obviously the good jobs I take on.
I’m a lot happier just working for people I like.

 

[thesilentone]

Interesting thread.

In my not to short working life I have found a leopard never changes it's spots. If he's been off with you, he's been off with others, so don't worry about you're reputation

However, anyone can deal with good, well mannered people, it's takes someone a little special to deal with the awkward bxxxrds.

But, his behaviour and attitide is a warning sign, and my only concern would be, will it happen again ? If you complete the work and hand in the invoice, will all these unsubstantiated problems arise as he try's to bully the bill down ? Becasue that's what he is, a bully.

So, if I were to do the work I would agree on a payment plan of x deposit on agreement (say 30%) another 30% when you're half way through and the final balance on completion. I would add extra to the charges to cover the risk of his volitility, and a small discount on the final payment if paid in 7 days.

I would also agree and sign a simple NDA and confidentiality agreement to ensure you're interlectual property is protected.

No matter what problems people are carrying in life, this should not be an excuse for bad and insulting behaviour to others.

 

[essexpete]

That's the problem, there is risk in all things in life and if you don't take on risk you will never get anywhere,
Could be best thing ever or could be a valuable life lesson learned.



Very hard to compare, I would be offering a more complete compliance package whilst others would be just be doing bits and pieces. Competitors would be getting a higher rate per piece work. I would assume that is why he phoned me back when he added all quotes up.

I do know that an another consultant quoted him £6,000 for a fairly basic HACCP for his small food business. I don't know where he got that figure from though, possibly just didn't want the work.

That tells you enough to politely decline.