- Location
- North yorkshire
Been pricing up a new deutz combine with 25ft head and their recommending that egnos would be good enough to steer it ? Does any one else have experience with it on a combine and is it accurate enough for it ??
Egnos for new combine????
- Thread starter farmer dave136
- Start date
Steevo
Member
- Location
- Gloucestershire
I wouldn't like to rely on it. What hardware do they fit? Any ideas if they offer any alternative lower cost signal correction?
However.....I assume it's a new combine so will be hydraulic valve steered? This would help a lot. You'll be combining in straight lines which should help quite a bit.
My EZ-Pilot on the combine is good and works well on Trimble Rangepoint RTX (more accurate than EGNOS). My struggles come more from the fact it is rear wheel steer so unlike a tractor it's not so easy to keep on line - a small move at the back end can make a wide header move quite a bit so it can wobble up the field a bit left, right, left, right etc. Just something to be aware of.
However.....I assume it's a new combine so will be hydraulic valve steered? This would help a lot. You'll be combining in straight lines which should help quite a bit.
My EZ-Pilot on the combine is good and works well on Trimble Rangepoint RTX (more accurate than EGNOS). My struggles come more from the fact it is rear wheel steer so unlike a tractor it's not so easy to keep on line - a small move at the back end can make a wide header move quite a bit so it can wobble up the field a bit left, right, left, right etc. Just something to be aware of.
Northern farmer
Member
- Location
- North
EGNOS on the combine is as good as EGNOS on other machines. Do you mean you do not have experience about EGNOS for auto-steer?
You will have quite conflicting views from the forum about "good" or "good enough". Some farmers here claim EGNOS is good enough for seeding and at least I feel a bit less is good enough for the combine. Then again, I would never see EGNOS sufficient for a drill.
Steevo above gives another example of what is good. I've done a bit of reverse driving (real field work) with our Fendt and it does not wobble at all. No experience about a combine but my tractor reversing should be pretty much the same. What I mean here is that Steevo considers something "working well" that I would not. He is absolutely right because we define good and well differently. The OP must try to interpret each opinion here against his needs.
From the brochures the Deutz autosteer system looks very much like one from Topcon with the AES-35 electric steering wheel. I wonder why do they not use hydraulic steering like for tractors when factory installed? The AES-35 steering kit can be installed with a steering angle sensor, be sure it comes with the combine. Not sure who knows Topcon products best at the forum currently, Robt might be willing to assist/comment on details?
The electric steering wheel might make sense on the combine as it makes it easier to move the system to another vehicle.
Assuming this is the AGI-4 receiver (brochure photos do not show it well), you can start with EGNOS and easily plug in the gyro module and the radio to obtain RTK accuracy. Reminding me that tilt compensation would likely be even more important on a combine than a tractor as the receiver sits a bit higher. Would combine drivers agree?
You will have quite conflicting views from the forum about "good" or "good enough". Some farmers here claim EGNOS is good enough for seeding and at least I feel a bit less is good enough for the combine. Then again, I would never see EGNOS sufficient for a drill.
Steevo above gives another example of what is good. I've done a bit of reverse driving (real field work) with our Fendt and it does not wobble at all. No experience about a combine but my tractor reversing should be pretty much the same. What I mean here is that Steevo considers something "working well" that I would not. He is absolutely right because we define good and well differently. The OP must try to interpret each opinion here against his needs.
From the brochures the Deutz autosteer system looks very much like one from Topcon with the AES-35 electric steering wheel. I wonder why do they not use hydraulic steering like for tractors when factory installed? The AES-35 steering kit can be installed with a steering angle sensor, be sure it comes with the combine. Not sure who knows Topcon products best at the forum currently, Robt might be willing to assist/comment on details?
The electric steering wheel might make sense on the combine as it makes it easier to move the system to another vehicle.
Assuming this is the AGI-4 receiver (brochure photos do not show it well), you can start with EGNOS and easily plug in the gyro module and the radio to obtain RTK accuracy. Reminding me that tilt compensation would likely be even more important on a combine than a tractor as the receiver sits a bit higher. Would combine drivers agree?
Fish
Member
- Location
- North yorkshire
EGNOS on a combine is hopeless, it is simply not accurate and will drive you mad.
Yes the set up of the roll compensation is very important.
Yes the set up of the roll compensation is very important.
- Location
- North West
I run sf1 with an atu on my combine, can’t say as I have an issue with it wandering L/R as it hardly moves the wheel. A lot of wondering can be tuned out.
The signal type will dictate how much drift you get from one end of the field to the other and I’d say your going to get quite a bit with egnos.
However you can compensate for some drift/wandering with the header width settings and how much overlap you set. Personally I run the header width 10cm narrower, so 5cm of play either side. This means you have 10cm of clearance on the return stoke, if that makes sense ?. Sometimes have to adjust more for a leaning crop.
The signal type will dictate how much drift you get from one end of the field to the other and I’d say your going to get quite a bit with egnos.
However you can compensate for some drift/wandering with the header width settings and how much overlap you set. Personally I run the header width 10cm narrower, so 5cm of play either side. This means you have 10cm of clearance on the return stoke, if that makes sense ?. Sometimes have to adjust more for a leaning crop.
Steevo
Member
- Location
- Gloucestershire
Guess it depends what you call "wobble". I was referring to the fact that if you're 1cm off course to the right, the combine has to move the rear end across to the left, so it moves the machine left, then straighten up again, all whilst going forward and not going more than 1cm across to the right. A bit like perfectly reversing a long trailer much wider than the axles.....but being more concerned where the rear the trailer is travelling, rather than the wheels/pivot point.
Maybe I'm just being picky! Here's my straw trails....I run 20cm "overlap".
Maybe I'm just being picky! Here's my straw trails....I run 20cm "overlap".
We have Deutz combine with 7.2m header, and use a Topcon x30 with egnos correction. The screen and dome are moved to another tractor for the rest of the year which we feel offers good flexibility. While egnos is not perfect, with tuning certainly does not wobble as you go down the field and leaves swathes much as Steevo's pic. We adjust overlap for different crops.
J
J
- Location
- North yorkshire
hi how do you find the electric steering wheel Does it keep moving when in auto steer or does the wheel stay still I’m thinking it might drive me nuts watching it spin back and forth
Cheers
The fact it’s rear wheel steer should make no difference if it’s set up correct!
Edit, if it’s set right it won’t spin left and right as you go down field. It will slowly make tiny corrections. You will see slight movements but hardly enough to worry about
EGNOS is fine. I've used it when I couldn't get the Rangepoint RTX set up. Not twitchy at all, or not that I could see in the swaths anyway. What are you used to?
Though the more expensive the operation, the quicker the payback on a better correction, for combining it is less clear. You will do less runs (and therefore area) per day with more overlap but the spot work rate ought to be the same if the machine is full all the time.
Though the more expensive the operation, the quicker the payback on a better correction, for combining it is less clear. You will do less runs (and therefore area) per day with more overlap but the spot work rate ought to be the same if the machine is full all the time.
- Location
- Northumberlandia
i dont drive the combine very often but just dont get the savings to operator having it steered for you.
Unless its a concentration thing then i do understand but you would want RTX as a minimum id say
egnos is fine on the fert spreader but imho no for much else, poss basic guidance for fert on grass with no tramlines ??
when were combining its often cutting with 2 or 3ft wide at once side for all sorts of reasons & then there is the half widths left to split & buts
On a Tractor doing tillage guidance is a win win everytime but there will be plenty, myself inc not so long ago thought id never justify that.
Unless its a concentration thing then i do understand but you would want RTX as a minimum id say
egnos is fine on the fert spreader but imho no for much else, poss basic guidance for fert on grass with no tramlines ??
when were combining its often cutting with 2 or 3ft wide at once side for all sorts of reasons & then there is the half widths left to split & buts
On a Tractor doing tillage guidance is a win win everytime but there will be plenty, myself inc not so long ago thought id never justify that.
- Location
- Dorset/Wiltshire
We have Egnos and lazer pilot on our combine and the lazer pilot is far superior at keeping straight and I only use the Satelites as a guide when I’m cutting out a land. 2011 machine so I guess things would of improved by now.
@Farma Parma If used on combine, the straw swath is straighter, you always cut full breeds. It’s easier for trailer driver as you can concentrate on auger rather than trying to not steer into him/her.
- Location
- Northumberlandia
yeah i get all of that,never had the issue of combine header twitching to foul the trailer man mind.
Ours are pretty much straight its just sometimes you have to run with header even a metre out because of other end running in the next tramline with the shedder for example
ive been in the cab enuff to know these hardened binder operators ways !!
clbarclay
Member
- Location
- Worcestershire
There are a whole bundle of issues with the combined accuracy of any satellite steering system. The accuracy of the signal will affect where the controller thinks it is, but how it responds to that is affected by a lot else.
If you are not doing something like CTF then a signal that is not absolutely accurate and only slowly drifts abound 4" every hour is not going to be much of an issue while steaming up and down with a combine. Does leaving 6" or 12" overlap doesn't make any difference if it is near enough constant and you can just go a fraction faster or slower to feed the crop in at the same rate?
Last year in some fields I was deliberately setting a 2 foot overlap for some runs and going a little faster, just so it would comfortably just do 1 bout to a tank full.
I suppose if the baler men wanted to use GPS too then that might have pee'd them off.
How well the rest of the system can steer the combine to keep it following the line is another matter. At reasonable speeds and with the header raised off the floor, I had no trouble just using an ez-pilot with rangepoint correction. Start going very slow with, with the header flat on the floor and on a hill side and I spent quite a while tweaking the settings to reduce how much it was twerking. This was not due to signal accuracy, which was as steady as it had been for the rest of the field and just changing to RTK would not have helped that.
I think this is largely to do with how the particular steering system works out heading and compensates (or does not) for changes in the forces acting on the machine. Altering settings could compensate for this a bit, but were a compromise with how well the steering responded in normal conditions.
If you are not doing something like CTF then a signal that is not absolutely accurate and only slowly drifts abound 4" every hour is not going to be much of an issue while steaming up and down with a combine. Does leaving 6" or 12" overlap doesn't make any difference if it is near enough constant and you can just go a fraction faster or slower to feed the crop in at the same rate?
Last year in some fields I was deliberately setting a 2 foot overlap for some runs and going a little faster, just so it would comfortably just do 1 bout to a tank full.
I suppose if the baler men wanted to use GPS too then that might have pee'd them off.
How well the rest of the system can steer the combine to keep it following the line is another matter. At reasonable speeds and with the header raised off the floor, I had no trouble just using an ez-pilot with rangepoint correction. Start going very slow with, with the header flat on the floor and on a hill side and I spent quite a while tweaking the settings to reduce how much it was twerking. This was not due to signal accuracy, which was as steady as it had been for the rest of the field and just changing to RTK would not have helped that.
I think this is largely to do with how the particular steering system works out heading and compensates (or does not) for changes in the forces acting on the machine. Altering settings could compensate for this a bit, but were a compromise with how well the steering responded in normal conditions.
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