FG2 sheep netting fencing on Mid tier stewardship

[Contractor Guy]

Hi has anyone seen any diagrams of diagonal strutting?
I can not get my head around where their 45degrees come from
I have been doing box strutting for34 years and never had any condemned until last November
I don't seem to be able to contact anyone in the RPA that has any knowledge of fencing
I've just had another contractor ring to say he has just had a job turned down because of box strutting
Tornado wire proved years ago that box strutting is 4 times stronger than diag struts
What is ever ones view?

 

[Kam]

Hi has anyone seen any diagrams of diagonal strutting?
I can not get my head around where their 45degrees come from
I have been doing box strutting for34 years and never had any condemned until last November
I don't seem to be able to contact anyone in the RPA that has any knowledge of fencing
I've just had another contractor ring to say he has just had a job turned down because of box strutting
Tornado wire proved years ago that box strutting is 4 times stronger than diag struts
What is ever ones view?

It's already been discussed earlier in this thread

 

[tepapa]

Tornado wire proved years ago that box strutting is 4 times stronger than diag struts
What is ever ones view?

Box struts are no stronger than angle stays. What you tend to find is people build angle struts poorly so when they fail they blame the style and not their own construction methods.

Both angles and box struts should be equal in strength if both built properly it's just peoples interpretation of properly that differs.

 

[tepapa]

Hi has anyone seen any diagrams of diagonal strutting?
I can not get my head around where their 45degrees come from
I have been doing box strutting for34 years and never had any condemned until last November
I don't seem to be able to contact anyone in the

This is an example of the rpa not knowing the difference between it's elbow and it's arseh°le.
The British standard was written in a way as to not exclude any style of fencing/techniques along as the fence was structuly strong and the wire stayed tight. The rpa have taken a recommendation on angle struts and applied it to all strutting. They won't be told any different. By all accounts their advisory panel haven't got a clue and won't take advice, which has been given freely, to correct any information.

 

[Tubbylew]

It won't be long before contractors will be getting customers to sign an indemnity at this rate, big money and hassle now if a claim gets chucked out by pedantic desk jockies.

 

[tepapa]

Had a look in the British standard 1722/2/2020

The only reference to 45° for struts is for steel and concrete posts. Under the standard there is no reference to 45° for struts for timber fencing.

I'm sure there was reference to 45° in the previous 2006 standard.

 

[bob atherton]

Just about to put up 550 meters of chestnut posts, strainers etc. still can't find out this is 100% ok but others seem to have used this and got their fg2 grant.

 

[Tubbylew]

Just about to put up 550 meters of chestnut posts, strainers etc. still can't find out this is 100% ok but others seem to have used this and got their fg2 grant.

"You can also use untreated durable timber as set out in the Forestry Commission guide to forest fencing." As written in the spec.

 

[Oscar]

Not sure if this helps @Contractor Guy , but I use 8 ft( 2.5m) strainers knocked in so 1.3m is out the ground . I use a base wire and then Tornado torus wire and put my 2.5m strut into strainer between third and forth wire down from the top and then knock in and dig end of strut at end of post NOT the first fence post , that goes in around 0 .4/0 .5 m further along . That gives you a less than 45 degree angle.
Ps I use hammer and chisel and make a proper mortice joint into strainer, cut point off the strainer at an angle , use marker pen around shape and chisel out about an inch deep.
No idea if the real pros on here approve but that was what I was taught in NZ and over here by contractors I worked for . Defra have approved and payed claims .

 

[ploughman1963]

The RPA must take notice some times as I now find that the old bug-bear of fitting weatherproof caps on gatesposts under FG12 has been amended (6/11/23 I think) to say that weathercaps 'can' be used under the advisory section but are now NOT a requirement. Perhaps a concerted letter writing exercise might convince them that the isuue of struts needs looking at as well.

 

[tepapa]

The RPA must take notice some times as I now find that the old bug-bear of fitting weatherproof caps on gatesposts under FG12 has been amended (6/11/23 I think) to say that weathercaps 'can' be used under the advisory section but are now NOT a requirement. Perhaps a concerted letter writing exercise might convince them that the isuue of struts needs looking at as well.

I wrote to the RPA under on behalf of the BFU last year regarding a whole heap of changes to the spec. This wasn't included as in my eyes you swap the timber strut for the strut wire in in a box and both should be below 45° although it doesn't state which angle this is. I've no idea if they listened so I need to follow up with them

I'm waiting on Steve to reply but I'll write to them about this.

 

[Oscar]

Not sure about the weather caps as only last week they rejected some of my photos as it did not show the weather caps clear enough and wanted more clearer pictures so maybe not 100 % clear what rules are now?
As aside , I use liquid rubber paint on the tops and that is acceptable . Bought from builders merchant .

 

[ploughman1963]

Not sure about the weather caps as only last week they rejected some of my photos as it did not show the weather caps clear enough and wanted more clearer pictures so maybe not 100 % clear what rules are now?
As aside , I use liquid rubber paint on the tops and that is acceptable . Bought from builders merchant .

I’ll try to find it - my son showed me last night - maybe only applies to 23 agreements only? Was yours a 22?
will you be allowed to amend your gateposts or have they rejected it and you won’t get paid?

 

[Oscar]

No just had to re submit clearer photos.

 

[ploughman1963]

This is the only reference to weathercapping now and elsewhere it states that it has been amended to this ie removed the requirement

 

[tepapa]

This is the only reference to weathercapping now and elsewhere it states that it has been amended to this ie removed the requirement

That's a start, by the looks of it, none of my suggestions have made it into FG2.

 

[ploughman1963]

I suspect it may only apply to 23 agreements onwards- thankfully all our gates are 23 and 24 agreements

 

[Oscar]

Yes I am on a 22 start date.

 

[Home&Dry]

This is an example of the rpa not knowing the difference between it's elbow and it's arseh°le.
The British standard was written in a way as to not exclude any style of fencing/techniques along as the fence was structuly strong and the wire stayed tight. The rpa have taken a recommendation on angle struts and applied it to all strutting. They won't be told any different. By all accounts their advisory panel haven't got a clue and won't take advice, which has been given freely, to correct any information.

Unfortunately the only diagrams are in the British standards currently BS1722.2.2020
Had the same issue 20 years ago under the CSF (catchment sensitive farming grants)
They saw sense and agreed that the current BS at the time 1722.2. 2006 overrode their requirements and agreed the use of box struts.

Yes, They cost more to erect, materials wise but I would rather that than my staff causing injury to themselves using equipment that they have been trained to use, by a Lantra instructor.

Why would any employer or member of staff knowingly go against what they have been instructed and trained to do just to appease the RPA.

Currently replacing fencing, still fit for purpose at 20 years old. (CSF) tax payers are paying.

Box struts all the way!

 

[Home&Dry]

Not sure if this helps @Contractor Guy , but I use 8 ft( 2.5m) strainers knocked in so 1.3m is out the ground . I use a base wire and then Tornado torus wire and put my 2.5m strut into strainer between third and forth wire down from the top and then knock in and dig end of strut at end of post NOT the first fence post , that goes in around 0 .4/0 .5 m further along . That gives you a less than 45 degree angle.
Ps I use hammer and chisel and make a proper mortice joint into strainer, cut point off the strainer at an angle , use marker pen around shape and chisel out about an inch deep.
No idea if the real pros on here approve but that was what I was taught in NZ and over here by contractors I worked for . Defra have approved and payed claims .

Not sure if this helps @Contractor Guy , but I use 8 ft( 2.5m) strainers knocked in so 1.3m is out the ground . I use a base wire and then Tornado torus wire and put my 2.5m strut into strainer between third and forth wire down from the top and then knock in and dig end of strut at end of post NOT the first fence post , that goes in around 0 .4/0 .5 m further along . That gives you a less than 45 degree angle.
Ps I use hammer and chisel and make a proper mortice joint into strainer, cut point off the strainer at an angle , use marker pen around shape and chisel out about an inch deep.
No idea if the real pros on here approve but that was what I was taught in NZ and over here by contractors I worked for . Defra have approved and payed claims .

Sounds like an awesome job.

However, there is no mention of 45° in BS 1722:2.2020 with regards to timber struts.
Only within the requirements of the RPA which seems be causing an issue.

I'm pretty confident 34 years experience in the trade should be enough said. People don't keep trading in any part of the country without quality of workmanship and word of mouth.

No offence but;

"The fencing guy" doesn't come across as the farmers son borrowing a tractor and going fencing!