Growing winter beans on chalk soils

[Brisel]

Do they perform? How do we control chocolate spot and rust without cyproconazole & CTL?

Like many, I'm reconsidering winter oilseed rape. Grass weeds largely rule out winter oats & I'm already growing spring oats as my other break crop. What other autumn break crops should I be considering on light high pH chalk soils?

Not enough manure available to grow maize - it just suffers from every trace element deficiency in the book without muck under it. There's little demand for it anyway around here as there aren't many people still milking cows on the downs as the grass runs out in July in a year like the last one. Rye isn't a true break crop though I do have a Ryvita mill locally with a colour sorter if ergot is an issue.

 

[AndrewM]

Pgro website lists the following products for beans
Field beans:
Alternative active substances are available for the control of chocolate spot and rust: Azoxystrobin;

azoxystrobin + tebuconazole;

boscalid + pyraclostrobin;

metconazole;

tebuconazole.

Cyprodinil + fludioxonil will provide control of chocolate spot.


Dont know which would be best? Low yield potential, maybe just some teb?

 

[Cowcorn]

Do they perform? How do we control chocolate spot and rust without cyproconazole & CTL?

Like many, I'm reconsidering winter oilseed rape. Grass weeds largely rule out winter oats & I'm already growing spring oats as my other break crop. What other autumn break crops should I be considering on light high pH chalk soils?

Not enough manure available to grow maize - it just suffers from every trace element deficiency in the book without muck under it. There's little demand for it anyway around here as there aren't many people still milking cows on the downs as the grass runs out in July in a year like the last one. Rye isn't a true break crop though I do have a Ryvita mill locally with a colour sorter if ergot is an issue.

What can i tell you ? Teagasc research shows beans like a high ph so thats the first plus, also fert like beet compound cant remember what exactly . Feb drilled Spring beans might be a better bet on light soil from a disease point of view given the loss of ctl
Imho beans are a Wish crop When the yield well and cut early you Wish you had drilled more . When you are cutting high moisture bad crops in Nov you Wish you had never heard of beans !! I have 14 acres this year mainly to collect premium and provoide a break crop on a field thats to heavy for maize.

 

[super4]

I have grown winter beans (wizard) on my chalk ex downland about 10yrs ago. Yield was around 1.75t acre. I have not bothered with winter since as could get that yield and more with premium from spring beans.
Lapwings loved them. Never had so many nest here before or since.

 

[AndrewM]

morphine poppies? i seem to recall that they like chalk soils, no idea if there are any contracts available though.

 

[Brisel]

morphine poppies? i seem to recall that they like chalk soils, no idea if there are any contracts available though.

Macfarlan Smith stopped growing them in the UK a couple of years ago. Lots grown on the chalk downs of Hants, Wilts and Dorset.

 

[AndrewM]

Macfarlan Smith stopped growing them in the UK a couple of years ago. Lots grown on the chalk downs of Hants, Wilts and Dorset.

ah, hadn't heard that.

 

[T Hectares]

Do they perform? How do we control chocolate spot and rust without cyproconazole & CTL?

Like many, I'm reconsidering winter oilseed rape. Grass weeds largely rule out winter oats & I'm already growing spring oats as my other break crop. What other autumn break crops should I be considering on light high pH chalk soils?

Not enough manure available to grow maize - it just suffers from every trace element deficiency in the book without muck under it. There's little demand for it anyway around here as there aren't many people still milking cows on the downs as the grass runs out in July in a year like the last one. Rye isn't a true break crop though I do have a Ryvita mill locally with a colour sorter if ergot is an issue.

I grow them here, I dropped Spring Beans and kept Winters mainly because there is no bg control with springs, Winters with Kerb pre em and patch spraying of Crawler has been very effective and I think winters are a more reliable crop than springs yield wise
Tundras grown cheaply with a combination of Ctl, teb and Azoxystar has been pretty cheap, Ctl will be a loss but Axoxy and Teb are cheap, downy mildew more of a Spring bean problem than a winter one here
I grow for feed and use no insecticides for bruchid, I store through to May to gain some premium as there’s very few for sale at this time of year.
They are performing better now that the greening issue has resulted in a tighter supply and a poor spring crop helped further !! £40 over Liffe futures will ensure a sensible return for new crop but I fear for the following year as the market will surely be flooded again as it was in the greening years, ok to have a few in the rotation but I wouldn’t want to rely on them much more...

 

[T Hectares]

ah, hadn't heard that.

Was talking to a grower today who started growing them again last year and has 3-400 acres this year, seems a nacesent start to the industry again ???

 

[Brisel]

Was talking to a grower today who started growing them again last year and has 3-400 acres this year, seems a nacesent start to the industry again ???

I’ll ask the chap who used to be a fieldsman for MS - he’s now a general agronomist locally.

 

[deleted user 837354]

Brisel is spring linseed not more your thing??

 

[BenB]

I’ll ask the chap who used to be a fieldsman for MS - he’s now a general agronomist locally.

I have a client in Hampshire that has been growing poppies for a while, but about 30ha a year. As said above, when MS pulled out it looked like production would end completely, but UK Poppy Products (or something) was set up to process seed and straw if a buyer can be found. The contracts are not quite as good as they used to be but still works out well when all goes to plan.

 

[Flat 10]

I have a suspicion mancozeb would be an ok alternative to ctl if it was approved. But that’s just a hunch. Hopefully pgro are looking into it/have some old data.

 

[Cowcorn]

I have a suspicion mancozeb would be an ok alternative to ctl if it was approved. But that’s just a hunch. Hopefully pgro are looking into it/have some old data.

Thats correct , back in the ninties we used to use blight sprays ridomil or ripost ?? ON beans .
But given that the op soils are light high ph would he not be better with long runs of barley and oats as a break for wheat. A loss making break leaves the following wheat with a handicap . Maybe we need to dig out our copy of freams " elements of agriculture " to learn how arable cropping was managed in the sixties and early seventies before " can cures " became the standard. Lambs fattened on stubble turnips then ploughed for a crop of barley seemed to have been very popular on the downs back then .

 

[Brisel]

Thats correct , back in the ninties we used to use blight sprays ridomil or ripost ?? ON beans .
But given that the op soils are light high ph would he not be better with long runs of barley and oats as a break for wheat. A loss making break leaves the following wheat with a handicap . Maybe we need to dig out our copy of freams " elements of agriculture " to learn how arable cropping was managed in the sixties and early seventies before " can cures " became the standard. Lambs fattened on stubble turnips then ploughed for a crop of barley seemed to have been very popular on the downs back then .

Mixed farming? Who'd have thought of such a novel concept! Turnips do well here & I have them in the rotation for tack sheep but they barely cover their costs & aren't really a break when followed by spring barley though it does do well. I dropped winter barley a while ago as a 3rd cereal after WW & spring barley due to brome building up. I have an unhealthy wild oat problem which at the moment is manageable with rogueing, Axial in barley and Broadway Star in wheat. Without any half decent graminicides I'm reluctant to grow winter oats. Ploughing is off the menu here as I intend to be fully no till in a couple of years. I'm watching the neighbours growing soya but theirs was the only respectable crop in the entire country last year and that was due to lots of sun/heat units.

Brisel is spring linseed not more your thing??

No - it was a PITA all 3 years I grew it & it never yielded well, not helped by dry late springs. I'm not convinced by winter linseed yet but am watching it with interest. My best first wheats have been after spring linseed.

 

[deleted user 837354]

Mixed farming? Who'd have thought of such a novel concept! Turnips do well here & I have them in the rotation for tack sheep but they barely cover their costs & aren't really a break when followed by spring barley though it does do well. I dropped winter barley a while ago as a 3rd cereal after WW & spring barley due to brome building up. I have an unhealthy wild oat problem which at the moment is manageable with rogueing, Axial in barley and Broadway Star in wheat. Without any half decent graminicides I'm reluctant to grow winter oats. Ploughing is off the menu here as I intend to be fully no till in a couple of years. I'm watching the neighbours growing soya but theirs was the only respectable crop in the entire country last year and that was due to lots of sun/heat units.



No - it was a PITA all 3 years I grew it & it never yielded well, not helped by dry late springs. I'm not convinced by winter linseed yet but am watching it with interest. My best first wheats have been after spring linseed.

A shame as I always though spring linseed worked well in your area, direct drill as early as you dare, roll it in and bingo.

 

[Brisel]

I really hate waiting until early October to harvest the damn stuff!

 

[tw15]

Grain maize for crimping some big dairies about are buying in a fair bit . Go on try a bit of soya .

 

[Cowcorn]

Mixed farming? Who'd have thought of such a novel concept! Turnips do well here & I have them in the rotation for tack sheep but they barely cover their costs & aren't really a break when followed by spring barley though it does do well. I dropped winter barley a while ago as a 3rd cereal after WW & spring barley due to brome building up. I have an unhealthy wild oat problem which at the moment is manageable with rogueing, Axial in barley and Broadway Star in wheat. Without any half decent graminicides I'm reluctant to grow winter oats. Ploughing is off the menu here as I intend to be fully no till in a couple of years. I'm watching the neighbours growing soya but theirs was the only respectable crop in the entire country last year and that was due to lots of sun/heat units.



No - it was a PITA all 3 years I grew it & it never yielded well, not helped by dry late springs. I'm not convinced by winter linseed yet but am watching it with interest. My best first wheats have been after spring linseed.

I hear ye, but you have to play to your lands strengths , and light land with high ph is real good barley land . As im sure your aware the Wexford boys can hit the 3 ton + malting barley sweet spot nearly ever year . In my area on good medium land winter barley crosses 4 ton . In margin terms it takes a hell of a crop of ww to beat it when the straw value is added . My mud pie ground suits wheat so thats what i grow if i had lighter ground it would be barley. July harvest and good weather whats not to like !!! Brome is the penalty for no till ?? Time to get the plough out !!!!

 

[Spud]

Have you a local market for beet (AD or stock?) Its suprising how little water they can still perform with, given sufficient sunshine. I guess you're not too far from the coast? That will help also.

Winter beans have been far more consistent here for me than springs - and as mentioned, the blackgrass control is much better. We direct drill ours 5" deep in mid October, and usually cut them straight after the wheat, 2nd week of September. That said, these tend to be on heavier land, not chalk. Springs on a farm where I do stubble to stubble arnt great, especially on thin limestone.

Re oats - I've got on well direct driliing spring oats after a winter cover, on bg prone heavy land. The key I have found is not to sow the winter cover crop too thick, so the light gets in and the bg grows in the cover, not the following oat crop. Glyphosate, and direct drill the oats with as little disturbance as possible into the resulting carpet of dead cover crop. Virtually no wild oats or blackgrass, and precious little brome on one of the dirtiest fields on the farm in 2017.

How about peas?