Horizon, another kicking for farmers

[michael N123]

Which at the end of their lives were rendered down and returned into the food chain, multiplying up the ingestion of the OPs!
If you look at a graph of the occurrence of BSE with time , the graph is a classic poisoning occurrence one! Strange that!

Quite interesting if you start looking into it https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Purdey

 

[rob1]

Quite interesting if you start looking into it https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Purdey

It was all swept under the carpet, the gov didnt want the answers just incase they were found to be part of the cause

 

[johnspeehs]

Why is there no mention of dairy farmings carbon foot print? surely a high yielding dairy cows emissions would be much greater than a suckler and there are somewhere round 2 million dairy cows compared to 1.4 million sucklers.

 

[Exfarmer]

It was all swept under the carpet, the gov didnt want the answers just incase they were found to be part of the cause

We know the government was the cause, they reduced the temperature at which carcasses were rendered and they drastically increased the number of carcasses going into the system.
They licensed a system which was used in the USA to render cattle carcasses which produced a far higher grade of MBM.
Traditional MBM was a low grade protein with limited use and was got rid of by including it in ruminant rations by law!
Also the market for the fat was slowing down as the traditional market was margarine and that had taken a caning as it was seen to be using product which had been condemned unfit for human consumption.
A dutch owned abbatoir in Boston gained permission for a licence to operate one of these new plants given by the outgoing Labour government in 1979
The rest is history

 

[PostHarvest]

To be closely followed by the great british beef scandal Mad cow disease on thursday at 9pm.

Back in 1996/97 at the height of the BSE crisis, I was working a former Soviet republic. The BBC World Service broadcast the same film clip of a stricken dairy cow every 15 minutes, 24 hours a day 7 days every week for months. Couldn't have done a more thorough job of trashing British livestock if they planned it. They even had the Russian farmers scared that it was a world-wide scourge. It was patently obvious that the BBC hated livestock farmers even 20 years ago.

 

[rob1]

We know the government was the cause, they reduced the temperature at which carcasses were rendered and they drastically increased the number of carcasses going into the system.
They licensed a system which was used in the USA to render cattle carcasses which produced a far higher grade of MBM.
Traditional MBM was a low grade protein with limited use and was got rid of by including it in ruminant rations by law!
Also the market for the fat was slowing down as the traditional market was margarine and that had taken a caning as it was seen to be using product which had been condemned unfit for human consumption.
A dutch owned abbatoir in Boston gained permission for a licence to operate one of these new plants given by the outgoing Labour government in 1979
The rest is history

While that is true there has I believe always been doubt as to the level of heat needed to destroy the prion and if its true that it jumped over from sheep then why didnt the USA and other countries that have sheep with scrapie suffer far more from BSE while using M&B meal treated via that new system in cattle rations, Im no expert but as I said before the two countries that used OP's at the vry high rate suffered the most bse cases, its well know that OP's are nerve agents that attack the nervous system and they coud well have made cattle(and humans) susceptible

 

[matthew]

We know the government was the cause, they reduced the temperature at which carcasses were rendered and they drastically increased the number of carcasses going into the system.
They licensed a system which was used in the USA to render cattle carcasses which produced a far higher grade of MBM.
Traditional MBM was a low grade protein with limited use and was got rid of by including it in ruminant rations by law!
Also the market for the fat was slowing down as the traditional market was margarine and that had taken a caning as it was seen to be using product which had been condemned unfit for human consumption.
A dutch owned abbatoir in Boston gained permission for a licence to operate one of these new plants given by the outgoing Labour government in 1979
The rest is history

Prosper de Mulder was the company which operated the rendering.
They owned the majority of the plants not only in the U.K., and also in mainland Europe.

The Commission’s response to our reporting a problem was illuminating. There was not enough cash in the pot to compensate affected farmers for dead cattle across the EU, so Britain would do the research via SEAC and other countries would follow .

The reporting system was organised to encourage this. We reported a suspect animal (singular) and were compensated for that animal. Product was not affected (milk or meat sales.)
.
On the continent it was very different. A reported suspect triggered a herd shutdown. No sales of meat or milk, cheese or yoghurt until the biopsy results came through. This could take 2-3 months. No income.
If positive, the herd was slaughtered. If negative the farmer paid all costs.

Many countries in the EU reported a ‘new disease’ circulating in cattle. They called it ‘untreatable staggers’.

BSE was thus ring fenced to the U.K.

 

[rob1]

Prosper de Mulder was the company which operated the rendering.
They owned the majority of the plants not only in the U.K., and also in mainland Europe.

The Commission’s response to our reporting a problem was illuminating. There was not enough cash in the pot to compensate affected farmers for dead cattle across the EU, so Britain would do the research via SEAC and other countries would follow .

The reporting system was organised to encourage this. We reported a suspect animal (singular) and were compensated for that animal. Product was not affected (milk or meat sales.)
.
On the continent it was very different. A reported suspect triggered a herd shutdown. No sales of meat or milk, cheese or yoghurt until the biopsy results came through. This could take 2-3 months. No income.
If positive, the herd was slaughtered. If negative the farmer paid all costs.

Many countries in the EU reported a ‘new disease’ circulating in cattle. They called it ‘untreatable staggers’.

BSE was thus ring fenced to the U.K.

A few here had JCB disease too

 

[Wooly]

BBC 2 are doing a programme on BSE tonight at 9pm

 

[matthew]

While that is true there has I believe always been doubt as to the level of heat needed to destroy the prion and if its true that it jumped over from sheep then why didnt the USA and other countries that have sheep with scrapie suffer far more from BSE while using M&B meal treated via that new system in cattle rations, Im no expert but as I said before the two countries that used OP's at the vry high rate suffered the most bse cases, its well know that OP's are nerve agents that attack the nervous system and they coud well have made cattle(and humans) susceptible

Our cases were unborn calves at the time of applying the warble dressing. The adult cow was fine. Her calf was not, and in due course was a clinical BSE.

OPs were / are widely used in human situations too, nit shampoos and as pet flea treatments.

All the young people who were diagnosed with vCJD, were the same genotype.

The Horizon programme is mischief making, as are interviews and wild projections from relatives of people who died 20 years ago.

vCJD was found in the brain of a 23 year old, held in the Corsellis collection. This person died a century ago, which when this was found, led the abandonment of the ‘new’ label with the connotation that implied.

 

[SteveHants]

An in teresting response to this sort of thing (although Netflix, not the BBC) here: https://lachefnet.wordpress.com/2016/07/04/la-chefs-movie-review-cowspiracy-truth-or-propaganda/

(Veganism being 'better for the planet', not vCJD)

Not entirely convinved by the BBC being a left-wing conspiracy though, especially since so many of it's top execs and political presenters are Tories, but that's a topic for a different day.

 

[Henarar]

Our cases were unborn calves at the time of applying the warble dressing. The adult cow was fine. Her calf was not, and in due course was a clinical BSE.

if it was down to OP's for warbles how come we had two with BSE but didn't use the Warble stuff, Dad signed to say he had but he never put it on the cows

 

[slackjawedyokel]

Our cases were unborn calves at the time of applying the warble dressing. The adult cow was fine. Her calf was not, and in due course was a clinical BSE.

OPs were / are widely used in human situations too, nit shampoos and as pet flea treatments.

All the young people who were diagnosed with vCJD, were the same genotype.

The Horizon programme is mischief making, as are interviews and wild projections from relatives of people who died 20 years ago.

vCJD was found in the brain of a 23 year old, held in the Corsellis collection. This person died a century ago, which when this was found, led the abandonment of the ‘new’ label with the connotation that implied.

Matthew, is the hypothesis that individuals (bovine or human) with a particular genetic makeup are made more susceptible to contracting the disease through exposure to OPs, then exposure to infected meat triggers the disease?

I was still at school/uni at the time but remember it being a fairly bleak time.

Do you know, did Private Eye do a BSE report, or am I conflating it with the F&M report?

 

[The Ruminant]

Why is there no mention of dairy farmings carbon foot print? surely a high yielding dairy cows emissions would be much greater than a suckler and there are somewhere round 2 million dairy cows compared to 1.4 million sucklers.

@johnspeehs, I posted the text below in another thread and make no apology for posting it again here:

The sooner farmers educate themselves, and then the public, about the truth behind ‘emissions’ the better.

Every human being on earth breathes out carbon dioxide, a gas responsible for global warming and which persists in the atmosphere for hundreds of years. Where does this gas come from? Their food, when it’s broken down during respiration.

Cattle emit a mixture of carbon dioxide and methane. Methane breaks down in about 12 years to form carbon dioxide. So the methane given out 12 years ago by your herd has disappeared and been replaced by the methane from your current herd. As long as global cattle numbers stay constant, the amount of methane in the air from cattle stays constant. Where does the methane and carbon dioxide they emit come from? As with humans, from their food, as a waste product of digestion and respiration.

The source of the carbon (in both methane and carbon dioxide) is the critical point. It is captured from the air by the plant whilst its photosynthesising. The animal comes along and eats that captured carbon then digests it and releases the carbon back into the air.

That’s why it’s called the carbon cycle.

So, how can an animal that’s only returning back to the atmosphere the carbon that was taken out of the atmosphere be responsible for global warming? Like human breath, it’s cycling carbon.

The ‘new’ carbon, that is increasing the atmospheric levels, is the stuff being dug out of the ground in the form of fossil fuels. It’s common sense.

Oh, and this fossilised carbon was simply carbon captured by plants millions of years ago. It wasn’t recycled by animals, instead it ended up in the soil and eventually as rich seams of coal and natural gas.

 

[MiJ]

https://wattsupwiththat.com/2013/03/06/nasa-satellite-data-shows-a-decline-in-water-vapor/

 

[Exfarmer]

Matthew, is the hypothesis that individuals (bovine or human) with a particular genetic makeup are made more susceptible to contracting the disease through exposure to OPs, then exposure to infected meat triggers the disease?

I was still at school/uni at the time but remember it being a fairly bleak time.

Do you know, did Private Eye do a BSE report, or am I conflating it with the F&M report?

Private Eye certainly did a report, but I am afraid The recently late departed Christopher Booker was a good friend of Mark Purdy, which may well have influenced the outcome.

 

[johnspeehs]

@johnspeehs, I posted the text below in another thread and make no apology for posting it again here:

The sooner farmers educate themselves, and then the public, about the truth behind ‘emissions’ the better.

Every human being on earth breathes out carbon dioxide, a gas responsible for global warming and which persists in the atmosphere for hundreds of years. Where does this gas come from? Their food, when it’s broken down during respiration.

Cattle emit a mixture of carbon dioxide and methane. Methane breaks down in about 12 years to form carbon dioxide. So the methane given out 12 years ago by your herd has disappeared and been replaced by the methane from your current herd. As long as global cattle numbers stay constant, the amount of methane in the air from cattle stays constant. Where does the methane and carbon dioxide they emit come from? As with humans, from their food, as a waste product of digestion and respiration.

The source of the carbon (in both methane and carbon dioxide) is the critical point. It is captured from the air by the plant whilst its photosynthesising. The animal comes along and eats that captured carbon then digests it and releases the carbon back into the air.

That’s why it’s called the carbon cycle.

So, how can an animal that’s only returning back to the atmosphere the carbon that was taken out of the atmosphere be responsible for global warming? Like human breath, it’s cycling carbon.

The ‘new’ carbon, that is increasing the atmospheric levels, is the stuff being dug out of the ground in the form of fossil fuels. It’s common sense.

Oh, and this fossilised carbon was simply carbon captured by plants millions of years ago. It wasn’t recycled by animals, instead it ended up in the soil and eventually as rich seams of coal and natural gas.

Yes I read that when you posted it before and I agree with what your saying, what I was pointing out was the fact that beef and sheep seem to be getting the finger pointed at them with no mention of dairy cows that seem to be increasing all the time.

 

[robs1]

if it was down to OP's for warbles how come we had two with BSE but didn't use the Warble stuff, Dad signed to say he had but he never put it on the cows

Were they born on the farm ? How did he get away with not treating his cows ? We were watched by some bloke from the ministry on at least two occasions

 

[Exfarmer]

Were they born on the farm ? How did he get away with not treating his cows ? We were watched by some bloke from the ministry on at least two occasions

I cannot remember anyone watching us. Having a wife who worked in the leather industry gave me the incentive to do it anyway.
I would guess they probably had feed back from markets etc about the incidence of warble fly

 

[The Ruminant]

Yes I read that when you posted it before and I agree with what your saying, what I was pointing out was the fact that beef and sheep seem to be getting the finger pointed at them with no mention of dairy cows that seem to be increasing all the time.

We have to be careful though, because pointing the finger at other ruminant systems and saying "they do it too" is an admission of guilt. Instead we should be saying "the emission figures being discussed are wrong", and we should keep saying it, over and over and over until they start to get it right.

I'm not saying livestock farming is perfect - once we start to use fertiliser and feed grains then we're starting to become a net emitter of carbon but a cow, grazing in an unfertilised field will be carbon neutral at worst and in all likelihood will be carbon-negative