Is The Whole Job Just Completely Buggered?

[bobk]

There was always going to be a day of reckoning with them over priced store cattle

 

[gone up the hill]

Yes
I can understand that many will believe that it's not necessary to do so - "never have had to, why start now?"

But by having everyone working against the other, it's the perfect way to not need to pass value back down the line.

So there's two "don't need to's" - and that's the whole reason for paying you to keep the status quo, as a control mechanism.
And, it's not bad enough yet to force that revolution, I'm picking the next decade will be one of the best ever for UK Ag but it won't happen by just doing more of the same.
The rest of the world can play that game far more easily and profitably.

Trouble is farmers lack the national leadership from the likes of the NFU/AHDB to make that happen!

All they are concerned about is keeping themselves in cushy jobs or pushing for more red tape/rules like FA where they can get themselves very well paying jobs regardless of what the rubbish they dream up costs the UK farming industry.

Cattle EID just being one in a long line of examples!

 

[beefandsleep]

Rare for you to be so downbeat beefandsleep

I can see that livestock farming in the U.K. is not financially sustainable in its present form. I can only foresee a slow and steady decline over the rest of my farming career and hope to god my kids don’t want a future in it because there isn’t one.
Bloody hell, I just re read that and it does sound bloody pessimistic but it still stands.

 

[gone up the hill]

There was always going to be a day of reckoning with them over priced store cattle

They aren't overpriced thou because the store/suckler farmers are also facing massively increased costs.

If the store price doesn't leave a sensible profit margin for the above then sooner or later those store cattle wont be around to buy and then what happens?!

 

[Kevtherev]

Times are changing and folk need to change and adapt.
(It is possible with work)
And please don’t mention the fecking brexit Shyte and blame all that on Farming’s fortunes.
This dark period for uk agriculture has been on the cards for too long.
Livestock can be profitable but not on every farm and tenant farmers with rising daft rents are on the breadline I’m afraid.
Those that own their farms and turn a profit will survive.

 

[gone up the hill]

I can see that livestock farming in the U.K. is not financially sustainable in its present form. I can only foresee a slow and steady decline over the rest of my farming career and hope to god my kids don’t want a future in it because there isn’t one.
Bloody hell, I just re read that and it does sound bloody pessimistic but it still stands.

That is very pessimistic for you

What is the answer for UK livestock farming going forwards to stop that decline?

Ie for example: lower standards/ Welfare/ farmers taking control of the chain upto and including retail?? using growth promoters/ outdoor feedlots etc etc??

 

[beefandsleep]

I agree, store cattle are not overpriced, they are cheap considering the risk, investment and hard work that goes into them. Having said that, even very much reduced on the year prices at Welshpool today were out of my reach when I look at the last remuneration sheet I got from Woodheads. This cannot go on.

 

[bobk]

Trouble is farmers lack the national leadership from the likes of the NFU/AHDB to make that happen!

All they are concerned about is keeping themselves in cushy jobs or pushing for more red tape/rules like FA where they can get themselves very well paying jobs regardless of what the rubbish they dream up costs the UK farming industry.

Cattle EID just being one in a long line of examples!

I agree , but my buyers don't give a toss if I'm making a profit .

 

[An Gof]

Sub £3.30 a kilo base down here for beef cattle this week.

Waste of time with the cost of inputs/ value of store cattle/ calves etc currently!

Yup, down another 2p at £3.27 base.
Job to make a decent margin at that level, especially if you have sheds full of Fiesian/Holstein steers on a barley beef system.

Yes, I know @gone up the hill , I’m stupid

 

[unlacedgecko]

Do you actually farm in your own right? and by that I mean your own animals on your own/rented land.

( And whilst there is nothing wrong with it but being a contract shepherd charging people so much a week/ month to look after their sheep is a total different ball game to farming in your own right as for starters a contract shepherd takes no risk by way of for example a bad lambing year/ very poor prices/ losing animals etc etc )

What I don't understand is why if you think its so easy your not buying up and running your own flock on rented/bought land?

Oh and im not having a go at you but its very easy to tell others how they should be doing something when your not actually doing it yourself!

Short answer, no.

Longer answer;

As ever, access to land is difficult, with lambing/summer land being most challenging.

Recently, I've been offered several share farming arrangements (including one equity transfer to eventually own 100% of the stock). But having done the figures, I'm better off financially doing what I'm doing.

The whole point of contracting initially was to achieve that critical mass as fast as possible. Last winter I had 1200 ewes/ewe lambs on contract (reduced due to the drought and personal issues).

The previous 2 were 2500 and 2000 respectively. Apart from a (mercifully) brief period last winter when I had an apprentice, that's all been single handed, with me finding all the necessary land as well.

I'm not discussing specific details, but my current role means my personal fortunes are very closely tied to the success of the flock I shepherd.

Don't worry about having a go, I've broad shoulders and it's only the internet

 

[gone up the hill]

I agree , but my buyers don't give a toss if I'm making a profit .

That is why UK farmers need to get into retailing our produce ( and I don't mean everyone going out and selling their own produce at a farmers market )

 

[Kevtherev]

They aren't overpriced thou because the store/suckler farmers are also facing massively increased costs.

If the store price doesn't leave a sensible profit margin for the above then sooner or later those store cattle wont be around to buy and then what happens?!

There will be a shortage of store cattle for the finishing men as many suckler men have gone out of the job in the last few years.
Got quite a few customers who have gone out of cows and into dairy heifer rearing and another into pigs.

 

[beefandsleep]

The answer? Produce it for less or not at all. When enough have stopped the market price will rise to a sustainable level. The problem is most will carry on until there is nothing left. The only alternative? Gov support of some kind as we have now. I favour the market being allowed to function but that may mean no more red meat production in the U.K.

 

[bobk]

The answer? Produce it for less or not at all. When enough have stopped the market price will rise to a sustainable level. The problem is most will carry on until there is nothing left. The only alternative? Gov support of some kind as we have now. I favour the market being allowed to function but that may mean no more red meat production in the U.K.

You can't compete when french farmers receive headage payments etc .

 

[gone up the hill]

Short answer, no.

Longer answer;

As ever, access to land is difficult, with lambing/summer land being most challenging.

Recently, I've been offered several share farming arrangements (including one equity transfer to eventually own 100% of the stock). But having done the figures, I'm better off financially doing what I'm doing.

The whole point of contracting initially was to achieve that critical mass as fast as possible. Last winter I had 1200 ewes/ewe lambs on contract (reduced due to the drought and personal issues).

The previous 2 were 2500 and 2000 respectively. Apart from a (mercifully) brief period last winter when I had an apprentice, that's all been single handed, with me finding all the necessary land as well.

I'm not discussing specific details, but my current role means my personal fortunes are very closely tied to the success of the flock I shepherd.

Don't worry about having a go, I've broad shoulders and it's only the internet

If you offered enough rent or moved to somewhere like Essex you would find plenty of poor land to run your own sheep on!

Personal issues don't come into it, everyone has them but you cant let that affect your day to day farming!

Nothing wrong with what your doing and fair play for doing what you are but you are taking no risks in farming your own livestock and as you readily admit having done the figures running your own sheep flock doesn't stack up money wise so its a bit rich to come on here and tell everyone else they need to change what they do/ get out of the industry when you cant even make the figures stack up and you don't even own your own flock.................!!!!

What your figures show and what your not admitting is that farmgate prices are just not good enough/ sustainable in this day and age regardless of what system someone is running!

And I do stress im not having a go at you personally but in the long term either farm gate prices need to rise or all input costs need to fall.

 

[DrWazzock]

Here's an example of what I'm up against.

I grow beet (must be an idiot) and its £20.50 per tonne. That's less than it was in the 1980's when at one time it reached £32 per tonne. They have withdrawn the neonic treated seed coating this year but the seed price is still the same I.e. £1600 for £20 acres, but yield will probably plummet due to virus yellows, but of course the seed people have to maintain their standard of living while it's fine for mine to eroded.

To save money and wind erosion I am trying to drill it after one pass with Paraplow and power Harrow.

But the beet drill can't cope with the trash. It needs a set of six "mulch till" rollers for the front to cut through the trash which might work, but might not and of course that's my risk.

Ring the dealer, are you sitting down, that's £750 each roller. So £4500 to upgrade my drill which cost me £2500 to buy secondhand. I'd be surprised if the gross output of my beet is £14,000, so the upgrade is a non starter.

It's really is a sick joke now, the differential between what we get for produce and what we are expected to pay for inputs.

So its ringing round the scrappers yet again. Except I am just about tired of that, while doing 18 hours a day because of 6 hour lambing shift as well.

Throughly pee'd off.

And a sheep blew it's intestines out last night and had to be shot. More loss. They don't show that on lambing live.

Rant over.

 

[beefandsleep]

When/if SFP goes then suckler cattle will disappear, I can see that. Subs prop up their production and their prices as stores, they allow producers and finishers to hide from financial reality.

 

[gone up the hill]

You can't compete when french farmers receive headage payments etc .

Irish beef farmers are going to get a special EU sub to help them cope with the effects of brexit on prices..

 

[Kiwi Pete]

Trouble is farmers lack the national leadership from the likes of the NFU/AHDB to make that happen!

All they are concerned about is keeping themselves in cushy jobs or pushing for more red tape/rules like FA where they can get themselves very well paying jobs regardless of what the rubbish they dream up costs the UK farming industry.

Cattle EID just being one in a long line of examples!

Precisely, that's why I've always stoutly maintained you need to create "farmer led initiatives" rather than simply complain about what you have.
Because, "we have the most rules of anywhere" just won't sell your beef at a higher price, unless you can put forward why that is - to your end consumer.

Your current model just isn't doing that for you.

 

[Goweresque]

That is why UK farmers need to get into retailing our produce ( and I don't mean everyone going out and selling their own produce at a farmers market )

There's a fundamental flaw in the 'add value to your produce' business proposition, which is this - if you start adding value by processing your output, and its successful, then you could be as successful by just being a processor and forgetting producing the raw materials yourself, and just buying them in. Why do you think that Tesco don't own farms? Because there's no business synergy between retailing and food production. Ditto all the big food processing companies, they just buy in their raw material, they don't own farms.

Farming is a commodity business, the lowest cost producer will make money, everyone else will struggle. Owning the processing plant and shop that sells your produce won't make the actual raw material production any more profitable.