Justice….

[robs1]

Getting rid of gypsies… wasn’t there that German chap who had a similar idea what was his name again.

Not sure anyone is suggesting what you are implying and were the gypsies ( jews)in Germany going round robbing and breaking into property with the authorities doing nothing about it ?
If the police/ courts dealt with this scum properly then we wouldnt need to be even discussing this .

 

[linga]

@Danllan might be more help in how a judge might lead the jury in the interpretation of these.

My guess is that he fails 4 because he travelled twenty miles from his home, with a combat firearm, looking to get into the middle of trouble. Therefore it's hard to argue he wasn't an aggressor that night.

Number 3, again a reasonable person would have been expected to stay in their home, twenty miles away from the trouble that didn't concern them. Was his thinking reasonable? I don't think it was.

5. Did he need to be there? No. Did he leave the riot when it seemed violence could result in serious risk to life? No. Where did he retreat to, and was it a position of last resort, where there was no other option left to protect his life? I'd say his car or his home were positions of no further retreat.

No. 4 I agree with you but this is America!
No3 bearing in mind he was where was and had fallen over he might have thought his life was in danger. A reasonable assumption. It’s America.
if a jury decided he had every right to be there then he would be allowed to defend himself.
No 5. I think the video showed him falling over whilst running away. In the circumstances he couldn’t retreat any further unless he defended himself.

Over here he fails most of the tests but it’s not here it’s America !

 

[The Agrarian]

I think the point the professor made was that those are American tests. Except that certain states have muddied the legal waters.

 

[linga]

I think the point the professor made was that those are American tests. Except that certain states have muddied the legal waters.

Yes. The point I was making is that the judgement seems wrong to us but we tend to judge by our standards.

 

[Hampton]

The views on this thread are absurd.
Granted, the people who died were no angels, and rioting is clearly against the law, but this 17 year old travelled to another city armed with a semi automatic rifle with the purpose of assisting the police with law and order.
In the process of doing so he shot dead two men and injured another.
Those are the facts.
How on earth can that be acceptable.
The police neither asked nor required his help.
He was 17 and had a semi automatic rifle!

 

[Easedoff]

Was there ever.or is there still a system in place in the US, whereby, as seen in plenty of cowboy films, the local Sheriff can deputise ordinary civilians from the street in order to enforce law and order?

And I doubt if mushty was the only lad who travelled, tooled up, ready to fight the bad guys.

 

[linga]

The views on this thread are absurd.
Granted, the people who died were no angels, and rioting is clearly against the law, but this 17 year old travelled to another city armed with a semi automatic rifle with the purpose of assisting the police with law and order.
In the process of doing so he shot dead to men and injured another.
Those are the facts.
How on earth can that be acceptable.
The police neither asked nor required his help.
He was 17 and had a semi automatic rifle!

It’s not acceptable to us but we are not the US. Thank goodness

 

[robs1]

The views on this thread are absurd.
Granted, the people who died were no angels, and rioting is clearly against the law, but this 17 year old travelled to another city armed with a semi automatic rifle with the purpose of assisting the police with law and order.
In the process of doing so he shot dead to men and injured another.
Those are the facts.
How on earth can that be acceptable.
The police neither asked nor required his help.
He was 17 and had a semi automatic rifle!

Different countries have different ideas

 

[Roger Perry]

It’s not acceptable to us but we are not the US. Thank goodness

No, you are Britain where criminals rob you blind and make your life/business a misery.

 

[Muck Spreader]

No, you are Britain where criminals rob you blind and make your life/business a misery.

Approx 930 robberies in England and Wales last year where a firearm was involved. Compared to approximately 77,000 in the USA.

 

[Hampton]

No, you are Britain where criminals rob you blind and make your life/business a misery.

If you find it acceptable why have you not done it yourself?
I assume it is probably because you are a decent guy who wouldn’t dream of shooting people with an assault rifle.

 

[Hampton]

Approx 930 robberies in England and Wales last year where a firearm was involved. Compared to approximately 77,000 in the USA.

Hard to argue with that

 

[Henarar]

Hard to argue with that

how many people in the USA in comparison with England/Wales

 

[The Agrarian]

About five times as many.

 

[Roger Perry]

If you find it acceptable why have you not done it yourself?
I assume it is probably because you are a decent guy who wouldn’t dream of shooting people with an assault rifle.

If you find it acceptable why have you not done it yourself?
I assume it is probably because you are a decent guy who wouldn’t dream of shooting people with an assault rifle.

Tis true that I do not go around shooting at people, in fact guns have little attraction for me but I put that down to a close call I had at the age of seventeen from a .22 wound to my neck...............in England. It was not malicious but almost cost me my life.

 

[Hampton]

About five times as many.

Certainly not 77 times as many!

 

[Danllan]

"While the verdict in Kenosha will leave many Americans feeling angry and concerned, myself included, we must acknowledge that the jury has spoken," he said.

From https://news.sky.com/story/kyle-rit...r-acquitted-after-killing-two-people-12473174

If that's what you heard, I'd say you're doing him a disservice. Whatever our opinions on the matter, he's been a lot more statemanlike than Trump, who apparently (same link) congratulated the boy on the verdict.

I'm a Highlander, through and through. As far as I'm aware there's no American blood in me anywhere.

See above...

@Danllan might be more help in how a judge might lead the jury in the interpretation of these.

My guess is that he fails 4 because he travelled twenty miles from his home, with a combat firearm, looking to get into the middle of trouble. Therefore it's hard to argue he wasn't an aggressor that night.

Number 3, again a reasonable person would have been expected to stay in their home, twenty miles away from the trouble that didn't concern them. Was his thinking reasonable? I don't think it was.

5. Did he need to be there? No. Did he leave the riot when it seemed violence could result in serious risk to life? No. Where did he retreat to, and was it a position of last resort, where there was no other option left to protect his life? I'd say his car or his home were positions of no further retreat.

Haven't been following the thread properly to go into the discussion now, but... I can't comment on specific rules over there, but a Judge here shouldn't 'lead' a jury at all, ever. A Criminal Court here (meaning Crown Court for this purpose) is simultaneously a tribunal of fact and a tribunal of law; the Judge's role is to ensure fair play as far as law, rules and procedure go, then to sum up in a manner to enable a jury to make its decision. He may steer and, occasionally, direct a jury, but he may not 'lead' them.

 

[Deerefarmer]

It’s not acceptable to us but we are not the US. Thank goodness

https://thefarmingforum.co.uk/index.php?threads/using-tyre-stingers-on-private-land.303545/

Yeah thank goodness

 

[Highland Mule]

See above...

What’s your point caller?

 

[linga]

https://thefarmingforum.co.uk/index.php?threads/using-tyre-stingers-on-private-land.303545/

Yeah thank goodness

Happily , or rather unhappily admit that the UK is far from perfect.