NFU and No Deal

[Cowabunga]

I’m fairly sure there might be a few of us livestock (excl milkers) men people that can’t make the figures add up! Sure the status quo is good for a diversified business with fingers in a few pots such as property, enviro grants etc but if beef is your main enterprise then I can’t see much future. You want remain so that your business ticks along nicely as it is now, mine isn’t so I look forwards to change. Look after number one, not really interested in what you want/require, no offence intended.

Are you actually looking forward to change for the worse? Why? What possible logic or illogic are you using to come to such a ridiculous conclusion? Whether we are in or out of the EU, the British Government has already committed to a zero carbon economy and to drastically reduce the consumption, and by implication the production of meat and milk. That is whether we are in or out. However, if we are out, Brexiters have sworn again and again that food prices will be significantly lower outside the EU. How in the world is that going to be of any advantage to you or any other farmer?

Your best bet may well be to plant trees. Massive planting grants that cover the cost and much more, plus acreage payments for 12 years and an increasing demand for wood. This is available now, certainly in Wales, and for relatively good grassland. This is a UK initiative and now future policy whether we are in or out of the EU. So is the zero carbon initiative, which is UK led, not EU.

Who said that we were run by EU rules? We are not. We tend to make and support the most inconvenient rules all off our own bat and then gold plate them.

 

[milkloss]

Are you actually looking forward to change for the worse? Why? What possible logic or illogic are you using to come to such a ridiculous conclusion? Whether we are in or out of the EU, the British Government has already committed to a zero carbon economy and to drastically reduce the consumption, and by implication the production of meat and milk. That is whether we are in or out. However, if we are out, Brexiters have sworn again and again that food prices will be significantly lower outside the EU. How in the world is that going to be of any advantage to you or any other farmer?

Your best bet may well be to plant trees. Massive planting grants that cover the cost and much more, plus acreage payments for 12 years and an increasing demand for wood. This is available now, certainly in Wales, and for relatively good grassland. This is a UK initiative and now future policy whether we are in or out of the EU. So is the zero carbon initiative, which is UK led, not EU.

Who said that we were run by EU rules? We are not. We tend to make and support the most inconvenient rules all off our own bat and then gold plate them.

I agree with what you say entirely apart from the ‘change’ part. You will have to accept my thoughts on this, no persuasion will change my mind, in fact it may only cement my decision. In any case, most stable and prepared businesses will state they’re not too fussed on Brexit either way, I’ll admit I’m just going to have to take what they give me!

The rules part you mention was/is my biggest concern as regards our own government/civil service making and plating rules: At least Europe kept them in check to a degree, when we leave there’ll be nothing stopping them.

 

[Highland Mule]

How altruistic of you

I’ve spent enough time with the very poor in other parts of the world to be content with my personal lot. I also recognise the intangible benefits of being in the EU, and really wouldn’t want to lose them.

 

[Cowabunga]

Luckily not ‘in-hock’, I could walk away and be happy with what I end up in my pocket fortunately. Like you say those that are well borrowed obviously need change, change in politics/trade conditions or life choice is debatable.

Would be interested to hear from other beef producers as to whether they feel the current trading conditions and forecasted conditions are conducive to investing in and creating a profitable business.

You are right in the sense that it may be better to jump while things still have value. I have had this under consideration for a while now.

I can tell you without a shadow of a doubt that with the policy of the UK mapped out in the last week or so, the writing is on the wall for UK ruminant agriculture whether we are in the EU or out. The overwhelming priority is now going to be zero emissions and less red meat production in the UK. That has been spelt out and there seems to be no UK political opposition to it from any direction. Same goes for mass tree planting and conversion of grassland that isn't planted with trees to leisure and wilderness. Whether the UK is in or out of the EU makes not one jot of difference to this policy because it is the policy devised and to be ramped up by the UK itself.

Make no bones about this, the countryside and farming will be very very different within ten to fifteen years. Probably unrecognisable. Where will all the farmers go? Why they will be 'retrained' for new skills of course, like driving trucks and filling shelves at Tesco, sweeping the streets and maintaining the sewers instead of all the immigrants that used to do it.

 

[lloyd]

How altruistic of you



Hoping for change all the way!

We have cows and they made little
at best last 12months but I cant
see why there will be a sudden recovery
of beef prices outside the EU.
What is it that makes you think things will be better?

 

[Cowabunga]

I agree with what you say entirely apart from the ‘change’ part. You will have to accept my thoughts on this, no persuasion will change my mind, in fact it may only cement my decision. In any case, most stable and prepared businesses will state they’re not too fussed on Brexit either way, I’ll admit I’m just going to have to take what they give me!

The rules part you mention was/is my biggest concern as regards our own government/civil service making and plating rules: At least Europe kept them in check to a degree, when we leave there’ll be nothing stopping them.

The archetypal turkey voting for an early Christmas. I just do not understand your logic unless you want a quick death rather than a slow lingering one. However, think of others in other industries that will be effected even worse. The car industry. The steel industry. Many many other who are even now losing customers and jobs in the expectation of an exit.
Local farms are already finding it impossible to find staff for their farms and my cousin's partner, a Lithuanian who had a job at Marks and Spencers for many years, has upped sticks and gone home, fed up with all the racist and jingoism emanating from brexit and supporters of it. My cousin, who has a job at Oxford University, is applying for a year's sabbatical with a view to move out to Lithuania to see if they can both make a better life out there than here.

 

[milkloss]

We have cows and they made little
at best last 12months but I cant
see why there will be a sudden recovery
of beef prices outside the EU.
What is it that makes you think things will be better?

Because ‘little at best’ isn’t good enough for what is involved. I’ll turn it back on you and ask why or how it will get better if we remain or make a deal much as TM has tabled? I personally can’t see things improving but with change and a strong, forward looking organisation to represent us we might be able to create our future. Better to try than sit and do nothing.

 

[Cowabunga]

We have cows and they made little
at best last 12months but I cant
see why there will be a sudden recovery
of beef prices outside the EU.
What is it that makes you think things will be better?

I don't know why we bother. They just can't answer that.

 

[milkloss]

The archetypal turkey voting for an early Christmas. I just do not understand your logic unless you want a quick death rather than a slow lingering one. However, think of others in other industries that will be effected even worse. The car industry. The steel industry. Many many other who are even now losing customers and jobs in the expectation of an exit.
Local farms are already finding it impossible to find staff for their farms and my cousin's partner, a Lithuanian who had a job at Marks and Spencers for many years, has upped sticks and gone home, fed up with all the racist and jingoism emanating from brexit and supporters of it. My cousin, who has a job at Oxford University, is applying for a year's sabbatical with a view to move out to Lithuania to see if they can both make a better life out there than here.

You didn’t read my second sentence. Thought you wouldn’t drop it. Be constructive rather than critical.

 

[lloyd]

Because ‘little at best’ isn’t good enough for what is involved. I’ll turn it back on you and ask why or how it will get better if we remain or make a deal much as TM has tabled? I personally can’t see things improving but with change and a strong, forward looking organisation to represent us we might be able to create out future. Better to try than sit and do nothing.

Unfortunately Boris will probably sell you down the river to Trump.
We might go back to buying cheaper stores rather than calving cows.
I bought the cows because at the time I had alot of second quality
Fodders which wouldn't have been easily sold along with the manure
for arable ground that was getting tired.
No easy solution to cattle price with beef demand on the slide.

 

[Highland Mule]

East Sussex - why not open a farm shop and sell direct? That way you can set your own prices.

 

[milkloss]

East Sussex - why not open a farm shop and sell direct? That way you can set your own prices.

In the right area that could be a winner. Plenty doing it though and quite a challenging business environment in itself at present by all accounts.

 

[lloyd]

East Sussex - why not open a farm shop and sell direct? That way you can set your own prices.

Chap does that near me and does add substantial value
but takes several more hours per week and job to scale
It up enough.

 

[Henarar]

some on here are going to have to admit they were very wrong when this is all over, give it 40 odd years and we will see

 

[Frank-the-Wool]

some on here are going to have to admit they were very wrong when this is all over, give it 40 odd years and we will see

You won't have to wait that long!

 

[Hfd Cattle]

This thread is going nowhere now ..clearly some strong opinions on both sides !!

 

[turbo]

Unfortunately Boris will probably sell you down the river to Trump.
We might go back to buying cheaper stores rather than calving cows.
I bought the cows because at the time I had alot of second quality
Fodders which wouldn't have been easily sold along with the manure
for arable ground that was getting tired.
No easy solution to cattle price with beef demand on the slide.

Probably and might are the two main words that temainers use to try and scare people into their way of thinking,when you see the deals that your beloved eu has done with Canada and South America countries your beef prices are coming down even more,so take your head out of the sand the eu is just the same as our government but we cannot change the direction of the eu but we can change our lot

 

[Highland Mule]

Probably and might are the two main words that temainers use to try and scare people into their way of thinking,when you see the deals that your beloved eu has done with Canada and South America countries your beef prices are coming down even more,so take your head out of the sand the eu is just the same as our government but we cannot change the direction of the eu but we can change our lot

Who is “we”?

 

[turbo]

Who is “we”?

The uk

 

[Highland Mule]

The uk

Isn’t it obvious that we no longer have a United Kingdom? The wants and needs of each differ a load and just as you feel you can’t change things in a large organisation where you have a democratic vote (the EU), others feel the same at a more local level. Are you happy being in the UN?