NI Centenary

[DrWazzock]

Well it was always going to cause trouble wasn’t it? Why not just let it pass quietly? Why do we have to have these events banging drums and lighting bonfires just, it would appear from here to antagonise people. Does it really matter who thinks they are chief cook and bottle washer as long as we can get on with our daily work unhindered?

 

[Ashtree]

The invitation makes no mention of "celebrating" partition?

Arra, be off with you there now. If it walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck,….

 

[Ashtree]

Well it was always going to cause trouble wasn’t it? Why not just let it pass quietly? Why do we have to have these events banging drums and lighting bonfires just, it would appear from here to antagonise people. Does it really matter who thinks they are chief cook and bottle washer as long as we can get on with our daily work unhindered?

Next year will be very interesting. With all the Protocol induced empty shelves according to the unionists, there will be no pallets to build those bonfires. But wait till you see….the pallets will magically appear. Where the goods which were transported on them, will be a “mystery”!

 

[The Agrarian]

For your information he was a career politician of the Labour Party. Throughout his very colourful political career, he was one on the most vehement and outspoken voices down here, condemning SF, the Provos etc, and all which they stood for.
As president of course he is apolitical and has visited NI on very many occasions as president. Curiously though DUP leaders and members ALWAYS boycott events which he attends. Ho, ho.
The very same DUP, now try to entrap him with their weasel worded invitation. Hopefully, one of the final stings of that rabid, rancid, Pope bashing, Sodomy saving, UK union wrecking bunch of half wit, flat earther, conversion therapy, political has beens.
As a political force, you guys on here who support the union, would be well served if Doug Beattie, absolutely wiped them off the map at the next election. They need total and utter electoral annihilation. Total. Not one of them should be left standing. Not one. Bless ‘em, but the Shinners would miss them dearly. They are worth a nice few votes for Shinners you know, with their looney tunes nonsence.
Here‘s the bad news though. Too many of them will sadly survive. And their lasting legacy will be the Protocol and the surrender of the union they tried and failed to draw MD into celebrating. History will record that the DUP collaborated in the breaking of the Union, whilst MD was busy minding his own business and writing a few poems. Ironic, eh!!

Mostly agree, apart from the DUP worded invitation. That's clearly nonsense. It was signed by the main churches, none of which would consider themselves politically leaning toward the DUP. Ask Eamonn...

It's very much egg on face for Higgins today. Probably usually a shrewd operator, he really put his foot in this one.

 

[nivilla1982]

What did John Bruton say ?

 

[The Agrarian]

Well it was always going to cause trouble wasn’t it? Why not just let it pass quietly? Why do we have to have these events banging drums and lighting bonfires just, it would appear from here to antagonise people. Does it really matter who thinks they are chief cook and bottle washer as long as we can get on with our daily work unhindered?

Did you read the letter Wazzock?

Surely you could see there would be no banging of drums? Seriously, read it please.

I expect it to have very considerable sensitivity and good taste, as would be customary in the Church of Ireland Cathedrals, not least in Armagh. I also imagine it's no accident that Armagh was chosen, as the ancient 'ecclesiastical centre' of the island. Worth noting that the Church of Ireland is the direct descendant of the Irish Celtic church, and as a result would actually be more relatable to for Catholics of all shades, than for non-conformists. I don't think you get a milder, more sensitive and apolitical event than this.

 

[DrWazzock]

Did you read the letter Wazzock?

Surely you could see there would be no banging of drums? Seriously, read it please.

I expect it to have very considerable sensitivity and good taste, as would be customary in the Church of Ireland Cathedrals, not least in Armagh. I also imagine it's no accident that Armagh was chosen, as the ancient 'ecclesiastical centre' of the island. Worth noting that the Church of Ireland is the direct descendant of the Irish Celtic church, and as a result would actually be more relatable to for Catholics of all shades, than for non-conformists. I don't think you get a milder, more sensitive and apolitical event than this.

We had a rising here in Lincolnshire in the 1500’s. We objected to the fact Henry VIII destroyed our monasteries and robbed them. We sent a pilgrimage to London who were all executed in the Tower.
So where does all this end. It ends when I as a Scottish Protestant say enough is enough. I am frankly uncomfortable about the continued celebrations by the Orange order. The lighting of bonfires, the marches, to me are a provocation. Rubbing noses in it. I take no pleasure whatsoever that a country was partitioned. even though relatives nearly died in Dublin in vain trying to defend British rule. I’m sick to death of that kind of thing TBH. Partisanship along historical religious lines. It’s toxic. Absolutely toxic. So “celebrating” partition rests uneasily with me. It really does. We are all Jock Thompson’s bairns. Partition isn’t good.

 

[DrWazzock]

I couldn’t believe it TBH, when I saw we were celebrating retreat to an enclave and partition.

 

[JimAndy]

people seem to forget the reason for partition, was that the RoI was set up as a catholic nation for a catholic people,
they could have easily follow the like of the USA had had a total separation of church and state. but instead decided to integrated the RC church, that tightly into government. that non catholic are still at a disadvantaged 100 years later. and that the protasands of N.I. could never accept

 

[DrWazzock]

people seem to forget the reason for partition, was that the RoI was set up as a catholic nation for a catholic people,
they could have easily follow the like of the USA had had a total separation of church and state. but instead decided to integrated the RC church, that tightly into government. that non catholic are still at a disadvantaged 100 years later. and that the protasands of N.I. could never accept

I agree that’s a sad situation. Surely though it must be getting to the point where non catholics aren’t discriminated against in ROI. Here in England most are non religious which maybe makes it difficult for us to understand sensitivities in Iteland

 

[Joe]

people seem to forget the reason for partition, was that the RoI was set up as a catholic nation for a catholic people,
they could have easily follow the like of the USA had had a total separation of church and state. but instead decided to integrated the RC church, that tightly into government. that non catholic are still at a disadvantaged 100 years later. and that the protasands of N.I. could never accept

Don’t think I’ve ever read something so historically inaccurate, and a rewrite of history. Partition was done to protect the 6 counties as a unionist/loyalist region. The absolute disgraceful lean towards Catholic Church didn’t happen in the south for another 10 years, when rather than setup proper institutes the government let the church into pseudo power.

 

[DrWazzock]

Is it really true that Prostestants in the republic are still discriminated against? That seems bizarre and archaic from here where nobody even believes in God.

 

[Joe]

Is it really true that Prostestants in the republic are still discriminated against? That seems bizarre and archaic from here where nobody even believes in God.

Eh no absolutely not. While still issues with schools / hospitals south is very much moving towards a pluralistic society, taking time but getting there.

 

[The Agrarian]

We had a rising here in Lincolnshire in the 1500’s. We objected to the fact Henry VIII destroyed our monasteries and robbed them. We sent a pilgrimage to London who were all executed in the Tower.
So where does all this end. It ends when I as a Scottish Protestant say enough is enough. I am frankly uncomfortable about the continued celebrations by the Orange order. The lighting of bonfires, the marches, to me are a provocation. Rubbing noses in it. I take no pleasure whatsoever that a country was partitioned. even though relatives nearly died in Dublin in vain trying to defend British rule. I’m sick to death of that kind of thing TBH. Partisanship along historical religious lines. It’s toxic. Absolutely toxic. So “celebrating” partition rests uneasily with me. It really does. We are all Jock Thompson’s bairns. Partition isn’t good.

There are a few points in there that need to be addressed.

This event doesn't involve the Orange Order (though it's entirely possible senior representatives have been invited as guests, along with people from across the spectrum).
The order doesn't have anything to do with bonfires. They are organised by Loyalists, and often just youngsters. The Order has a festival day, for want of a more explanatory term, once a year, which involves marching in time to Hymns, Scottish reels and many other pretty apolitical themes, as well as some historical political ones of which I have no knowledge. Have you ever watched the Trooping the Colour? Of course you have, as have I. It involves marching bands and fancy uniforms and a general festival feel.

The service in no way claims to celebrate anything. It does aim to MARK the birth of Northern Ireland as a state, as well as the creation of the international border when our neighbours left the Union. I, as a Unionist, in no way celebrate partition. I would always much rather our ancestors had been able to work things out between them and preserved the Union, which had gone back in various forms to Norman times, and many centuries before that. I have no doubt that, while less political, history will judge the last hundred years as being just a bump in the road of what are deep and everlasting interactions within and between these islands.

But we are where we are. Perhaps if you lived here, you would realise just how low key and sensitively handled the matter of the Centenary has been this year, passing off with very little mention to be quite honest. I think most Unionists have not pushed the issue too hard at all. Quite something that one very sensitive and toned down cross-community church service is the pinnacle of the observance of the Centenary.

 

[M-J-G]

It's really a celebration of loosing the majority of Ireland from the union.

 

[The Agrarian]

If you had any intuition, you would detect regret amongst other emotions, in the outline for the service. It is not in particular a celebration, for those who are quite hard of hearing.

 

[The Agrarian]

Presbyterian Church held an event today to mark the sitting of the first parliament in their building, until Parliament buildings on the Stormont estate were completed. Again, it's important you understand this was not drum banging, but noting an important part of our history, which lives with us today in the present form of our devolved assembly. In light of that, they saw fit to invite the joint leaders of the devolved administration, as well as SOSNI and the Irish Foreign Minister onto the panel.

I think you can see the tone is anything but triumphalist or celebratory, but a mature assessment and marking of where we are and in what way we might proceed.

 

[M-J-G]

If you had any intuition, you would detect regret amongst other emotions, in the outline for the service. It is not in particular a celebration, for those who are quite hard of hearing.

I was not meaning the service, of course it will be a somber affair with lots of fakeness and people pretending to get along, I would expect little else.

I was referring to the centenary being described as a year with lots to celebrate, which in theory is a celebration of something lost.
Quite ironic really.

 

[The Agrarian]

I'm sorry for the chip on your shoulder. You can never find anything positive to say. Usually a sign of compensating for low self-esteem.

 

[M-J-G]

Presbyterian Church held an event today to mark the sitting of the first parliament in their building, until Parliament buildings on the Stormont estate were completed. Again, it's important you understand this was not drum banging, but noting an important part of our history, which lives with us today in the present form of our devolved assembly. In light of that, they saw fit to invite the joint leaders of the devolved administration, as well as SOSNI and the Irish Foreign Minister onto the panel.

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I think you can see the tone is anything but triumphalist or celebratory, but a mature assessment and marking of where we are and in what way we might proceed.

Why would a church be drum banging about something political?
I'm not sure why a religious or any other cult group would be involved in politics at all.