No till grass / pasture management

[Ben Pattinson]

Has anyone got any tips they’d share about which drill to use for no till pasture management. Whether drilling fresh leys into old pasture or sticking in some other varieties to existing leys / pasture.

 

[icanshootwell]

Has anyone got any tips they’d share about which drill to use for no till pasture management. Whether drilling fresh leys into old pasture or sticking in some other varieties to existing leys / pasture.

A Moore drill does a good job and will be cheaper 2nd hand than a modern example. Probably best to use contactor unless you have cash to spend.

 

[neilo]

Probably best to forget stitching in new grass into old as well, unless you have cash to spend on a very short term boost. Unless you're stitching into a thin, but clean, ryegrass sward, the old grasses will soon smother out anything new IME. Overseeding is great only for contractors and seed salesmen.

DD is fine, but kill the old sward properly first, ideally with a brassica break between.

 

[deleted user 837354]

Don't do it. You will get a new weed grass infestation within a few years. Ok for a short term ley but rather defeats the object and even they are not cheap in seed costs.

As Neil said, better to have a proper break of brassicas or similar in between reseeds.

Soil test everything beforehand mind.

 

[Greythundercloudys]

Better buy a plough, never seen this system work around here, waste of grass seed.

 

[deleted user 837354]

Better buy a plough, never seen this system work around here, waste of grass seed.

You don't need to plough but a lot of people have one already and so that is what they use.

 

[neilo]

Better buy a plough, never seen this system work around here, waste of grass seed.

I don't own a plough, and won't let anyone on the place with one again. I have had a SimTech drill for 6 years though and use it to DD grass, cereal and forage crops regularly. DD works just fine, 'stitching in' less so.
If I really need to cultivate to level ground up, it will always be with a tine, not a plough. My topsoil is too valuable to bury it.

 

[james ds]

Has anyone got any tips they’d share about which drill to use for no till pasture management. Whether drilling fresh leys into old pasture or sticking in some other varieties to existing leys / pasture.

I have reseeded a lot of different ways over the last 30 years, I have a plough but it’s left parked , different types of ground need different systems , if the ground needs no leveling then if it’s not old weed grass then the Erth machine can’t be beaten, in trials done here two years ago between six different systems , the erth was way ahead . I have ordered an Erth machine for the coming season , if the old sod needs breaking up then we disc it a couple of times and finish it with a powerharrow with a Fiona grass box on it, the min till systems like the guttler, scratch the surface , in wet conditions it will get a good take but on first grazing a lot of seedlings get pulled up as the seed was not put down into the soil enough . So basically I’ve just bought the Erth machine to do what you are looking to do.

 

[deleted user 837354]

I've seen every method tried and in varying soils and situations.

Forget which machine or soil is involved and consider the pest and weed angle as it is these that will fudge a new ley first: the seed has no idea how it got where it did.

These days grass to grass reseeding should be discouraged if at all possible because of the pest angle. Grass seed is some of the most expensive seed a farm can ever buy and also the crop a farm can make the most margin out of. Don't expose it to undue risk.

 

[james ds]

I've seen every method tried and in varying soils and situations.

Forget which machine or soil is involved and consider the pest and weed angle as it is these that will fudge a new ley first: the seed has no idea how it got where it did.

These days grass to grass reseeding should be discouraged if at all possible because of the pest angle. Grass seed is some of the most expensive seed a farm can ever buy and also the crop a farm can make the most margin out of. Don't expose it to undue risk.

If the seed isn’t sowed properly for maximum germination , you needn’t worry about pests or weeds . There’s no point in half sowing it and then hoping that if you control the pests and weeds you will have a great reseed . Get it germinated first , worry about pest and weeds after.

 

[Thomas5060]

I don't own a plough, and won't let anyone on the place with one again. I have had a SimTech drill for 6 years though and use it to DD grass, cereal and forage crops regularly. DD works just fine, 'stitching in' less so.
If I really need to cultivate to level ground up, it will always be with a tine, not a plough. My topsoil is too valuable to bury it.

If you are burying your soil with a plough then it says more about the operator than the plough....

 

[le bon paysan]

Glypho. Erth and Aitchison

 

[Ben Pattinson]

A Moore drill does a good job and will be cheaper 2nd hand than a modern example. Probably best to use contactor unless you have cash to spend.

Thanks for that, very helpful. I’m leaning towards the Moore drill but also want to drill cereals with it as well. Any advice on that?

 

[Ben Pattinson]

I have reseeded a lot of different ways over the last 30 years, I have a plough but it’s left parked , different types of ground need different systems , if the ground needs no leveling then if it’s not old weed grass then the Erth machine can’t be beaten, in trials done here two years ago between six different systems , the erth was way ahead . I have ordered an Erth machine for the coming season , if the old sod needs breaking up then we disc it a couple of times and finish it with a powerharrow with a Fiona grass box on it, the min till systems like the guttler, scratch the surface , in wet conditions it will get a good take but on first grazing a lot of seedlings get pulled up as the seed was not put down into the soil enough . So basically I’ve just bought the Erth machine to do what you are looking to do.

Can you get me a link to this machine?

 

[james ds]

Thanks for that, very helpful. I’m leaning towards the Moore drill but also want to drill cereals with it as well. Any advice on that?

There are plenty of good second hand Moore drills for sale here , all being changed for the Erth machines . Just google Erth grass seeder on YouTube and you will see it working .

 

[icanshootwell]

Thanks for that, very helpful. I’m leaning towards the Moore drill but also want to drill cereals with it as well. Any advice on that?

Probably the moore uni drill if you want to drill cereals as well, nice set up that.

 

[ploughman1963]

Apart from the obvious ph/indices caveat, I believe the success or otherwise of stitching in grass seed into an existing sward has most to do with timing and the attitude/attention to detail of the grazer.
Needs to be done in the autumn when the Y fog and annual meadow grass are on their backsides after a season of growing and needs grazing hard in short sharp shocks which will suit the ryegrass but not the weed grasses. Will not work with mowing in my opinion.
If possible, I would always go the glyphosate, DD brassicas, graze then DD grass seed if DD is your preference. We have a Duncan Eco-seeder here.

 

[TomAg]

Apart from the obvious ph/indices caveat, I believe the success or otherwise of stitching in grass seed into an existing sward has most to do with timing and the attitude/attention to detail of the grazer.
Needs to be done in the autumn when the Y fog and annual meadow grass are on their backsides after a season of growing and needs grazing hard in short sharp shocks which will suit the ryegrass but not the weed grasses. Will not work with mowing in my opinion.
If possible, I would always go the glyphosate, DD brassicas, graze then DD grass seed if DD is your preference. We have a Duncan Eco-seeder here.

Have you had any luck DD grass into a mown off grass ley? Or is it a waste of time?

 

[ploughman1963]

We have had successes but as noted, success depends on good management afterwards to prevent new seeds getting swamped out by old grasses

 

[TomAg]

We have had successes but as noted, success depends on good management afterwards to prevent new seeds getting swamped out by old grasses

See I wanted to try one of the erth drills straight after taking second cut of silage off?