Red Tractor arable..

[spin cycle]

I don’t want to keep stock, or at least not enough to eat hundreds of tons of wheat.
I do sell quite a bit of barley farm to farm, never asked if it’s farm assured, grow fodder crops for big dairy farms and AD, again never asked for proof of assurance, it’s just the wheat that’s the problem . Its my main crop and non of the feed mills will take non FA .

swap wheat for stewardship...IIRC you're a tenant so that might not stack up financially....thats why i had the 'tenanted caveat' in my op

 

[DRC]

swap wheat for stewardship...IIRC you're a tenant so that might not stack up financially....thats why i had the 'tenanted caveat' in my op

Would be a big change. Wheat is the best payer normally, and we need the straw for the pig muck swap that allows us to grow maize and cereals on the lighter land. Nothing is simple

 

[7610 super q]

i'm gonna put this 'out there'...cos i'm fed up with arable farmers moaning about RT but not voting with their feet......cos i did 5 years ago

IMO....if you're an arable farmer owner occupier on less than 200 acs.....you do not need to be RT ....you can keep some stock....sell feed to other farmers....even bagged corn to small holders...hay to horsey types etc
.....add in that if you're stewardship minded i reckon with 400 owned arable you've no need to be RT either

if the above 'suggestions' are to much hassle then 'suck it up' and stay RT

i exclude tenants cos i've no experience of it

I can, and do sell direct to livestock farmers. For a start they generally want a hefty discount cos they're collecting it. But merchants collect it...
I bought a mill to roll it into tote bags. But I've had it up to here with " Keep some back for me " only for them to disappear off the planet. They don't want to pay for new tote bags....OK, bring some S/H ones then. You end up with a pile of unusable ones with holes in... So yes it's too much hassle.
So yes, got to stick with RT then to sell all my grain at sensible ( quoted FW prices ) prices.
I don't know why we can't let our voices be heard at our dissatisfaction with mission creep though ?
If you don't like all the RT threads, don't read them ?
If TFF does actually represent a large percentage of UK farmers, then RT ( and the NFU ) should start to take some notice ?

 

[Banana Bar]

You said it. Mission creep. Building empires. Taking on more staff. It’s gone way beyond food safety. That’s what upsets farmers, me in particular.
The emergency plan was the first sign of it here really. Everybody knows you either dial 999 or knock at the farmhouse without having to put notices up to tell people. What made me laugh most is we are supposed to put the HSE phone number on the notice - why? So people can shop us in? Who thought of that one? It’s a joke, but arises from the postman pat make believe world these people live in.

I’ve had the wrong number displayed for 5 years, they haven’t spotted it yet!

 

[DRC]

I’ve had the wrong number displayed for 5 years, they haven’t spotted it yet!

Maybe in red tractors case the number should be 666.

 

[Banana Bar]

To almost quote John McDonnell, “ I wake at 4 am so I can hate RT for 2.5 hrs longer than most” B S t ards

BB

 

[7610 super q]

I actually quite like the idea of the portal. I've uploaded 60-70 pointless documents, which if permanent, means the inspectors can trawl through that sh!te every year, and I don't have to.

 

[DRC]

I actually quite like the idea of the portal. I've uploaded 60-70 pointless documents, which if permanent, means the inspectors can trawl through that sh!te every year, and I don't have to.

68 I did, so I’m glad it’s not just me

 

[Grass And Grain]

The other thread seems to have lost the plot, so I've started another ( Got to keep up the pressure ).
OK. I get traceability. I get safe produce. I get safe storage. I get cleanliness. I even get having my moisture meter tested, although the merchants pay by what their meter says ( Do they calibrate theirs ? ).

But.....in the interests of food safety....

Why do I need to show a soil analysis ? To prove you've obeyed the law to have it done at least once every 5 years
Why do I need to show an invoice for purchased fertiliser ? Traceability, especially for AN
Why do I need an emergency / disaster plan ? To prove that you've thought of such contingencies
Why do I need to show seed treatment records ? It's a pesticide treatment
" " Show a pic of where seed is stored ? Really? Probably to prove it's not containing stored grain
" " Drier maintenance records ? Measures to minimise the risk of fuel contamination of the grain
" " Drier fuel purchase records ? I didn't have to do this last time. To prove a recognised grade of fuel, not used chip fat
" " Waste transfer notes ? Paper trail to say you didn't burn it all Nov 5th
" " Calibration records for fert spreaders ? Fertiliser can pollute the environment and expect further legislation on this in the Environment Bill
" " Show a pic of my fert spreader ? New one on me. Usually done as part of the tray test here anyway.
" " Agronomists certificates ? ( Happy to provide their numbers, but this hints at we're liars ) Used to be just the BASIS & FACTS numbers, to prove current competence
" " Farm pollution risk assessment ? Risk assessments are part of normal H&S. This is just an environmental one
" " Crop inspection records ? News to me. The agronomist usually writes sheets but has done it verbally lately. I'd better get a paper trail in place...
" " Records of weeds / pests / diseases ? Will be on the crop inspection records and spray rec sheets
" " Soil management plan ? This used to be part of cross compliance and is coming back now.

What has the above got to do with food safety / traceability ? Way outside RT remit. Severe mission creep.

@7610 super q Excuse the butchering of quotes etc, but this way seemed cleanest.

It's about documented proof of compliance and good practice. Drier/machinery & seed storage, crop inspection, training & agronomist records help with food safety angle. Much of the rest is part of having a paper trail for environmental risks. All other businesses that deal with working outside have them too. Grain merchants have to show calibration records for moisture meters too (I do commercial grain storage too & have just had a UFAS inspection).

Yes, it's patronising and I told the RT consultation this too. It is not far from what other industries have to do to satisfy their parasites. That doesn't make it right, but it does show that we're not alone.

I'm not a RT fan nor an inspector, for the record.

I know you're saying you're not a fan of RT (so not a comment aimed at you, rather just a thought) but just wanted to think about an assured product like fertiliser.

I think most of the fert we buy is assured under the AIC's FIAS scheme. So presumably the manufacturer/blender does a whole load of hoop jumping, box ticking and recording. Doesn't seem to stop the stuff we purchase from being damp and lumpy. On several occasions had 0:24:24 where one bag is a completely different colour, i.e. different proportion of P vs K.

Point being that box ticking and recording something isn't making much difference to the end product.

For grain, rather than RT inspector coming once a year, I'd rather my merchant could drop in as many times as he likes to take a sample and see the store for himself. If he likes what he sees then he can choose to buy the grain. Doesn't like what he sees, goes elsewhere.

Happy for merchant to look at my pesticide application records etc. if they wish. Job done, no need for RT.

If Weetabix, maltsters etc. want RT, then they'll have to pay a premium to convince enough farmers it's worth cost of being assured.

Farmers and purchasers could then have a choice if they wanted RT or not.

Just need AIC to initially accept this for UFAS mills. But, look who has skin in the game at SQC..

 

[Worsall]

I actually quite like the idea of the portal. I've uploaded 60-70 pointless documents, which if permanent, means the inspectors can trawl through that sh!te every year, and I don't have to.

But you will have to reload most of them again next year, putting new dates in etc etc etc etc. I have been advised by my solicitor not to upload any information. Just consider all the information held on record, that you have no right to remove or change. Laws change in the future, products found to be unsafe and litigation is made on past use. No thanks.

 

[Flat 10]

Paperwork creates jobs for others. It's about showing that you've understood the risks and written stuff down to say that you've tried to manage those risks. Point taken.

But you will have to reload most of them again next year, putting new dates in etc etc etc etc. I have been advised by my solicitor not to upload any information. Just consider all the information held on record, that you have no right to remove or change. Laws change in the future, products found to be unsafe and litigation is made on past use. No thanks.

so what you gonna do?

 

[Brisel]

so what you gonna do?

I responded to the consultation saying that I would leave RT if they brought in all the changes they proposed and explained that it added significant cost for an ever reducing benefit. It was hard to be reasonable while my blood was boiling but I didn’t see the point of being abusive.

It’s not much but I wanted to get my point across to them. Hopefully all the posters on RT threads in TFF have done so too.

 

[Flat 10]

I responded to the consultation saying that I would leave RT if they brought in all the changes they proposed and explained that it added significant cost for an ever reducing benefit. It was hard to be reasonable while my blood was boiling but I didn’t see the point of being abusive.

It’s not much but I wanted to get my point across to them. Hopefully all the posters on RT threads in TFF have done so too.

Sorry quoted you in error

 

[7610 super q]

But you will have to reload most of them again next year, putting new dates in etc etc etc etc. I have been advised by my solicitor not to upload any information. Just consider all the information held on record, that you have no right to remove or change. Laws change in the future, products found to be unsafe and litigation is made on past use. No thanks.

I didn't think of that angle
All I could think off was to do as much over t'internet as possible to avoid the inspector sitting in the office ( kitchen ) with me during covid.
Really RT inspections should have been postponed for 2 years until the pandemic is over.

 

[tullah]

I think you'll find those inspections are going to be postponed rather longer than that.