Security Concerns - Poll Results

[Ranger Security Solutions]

Thank you to those that took the time to vote. I appreciate it. The poll, asked for member's for their top three security concerns.

I created this poll for three reasons:

1) Primarily, to get member's to think more purposefully about their security, rather than generically. Security should be about protecting people's safety and the farm/business. Your investment in security should prioritise what will impact your business the most. Would any theft or damage cause significant cost or disruption to your farm/business?

2) To learn, and share among the members, what your main security concerns are. I was expecting more concern for theft of GPS equipment, large machinery and ATV/Quads; fuel and oil was around what I would have thought; and not so much towards theft of other equipment.

3) For my own objective, to gauge how many member's are actually bothered about their security and take it seriously.

The poll was open for three weeks, and had over a 1,000 views, and (expectedly) just 29 votes. If we are generous and assume a third of those 1,000 views were a mixture of robots from search engines and repeat viewers, then that leaves us with around 667 original/organic views. Approximately 4% of members who bothered to view the thread then took the short time to vote.

Is the answer to the low vote number, that most member's are not affected by rural crime (despite the numerous threads, and ongoing media publicity), members feel that they are protected and immune from rural crime (or prosecution), or that they are not taking their security seriously?

 

[mobileweld]

I would think the low vote count is mainly because voting makes no difference and it’s all a bit ‘survey like’ and nobody ever likes surveys. They are usually pointless. I mean this with no offence.

Farming like a lot of other industries is under pretty much constant criminal activity from diesel theft to poaching right through to entire machines. I’m part of a WhatsApp group and could tell you of a dozen break ins or cases of hare coursing per week with ease just in my local area. We ourselves had a man walk right into the yard last week at 8.30pm smash a truck window and take something from the cab.

 

[Ranger Security Solutions]

Thank you for the reply, and no offence taken. Hopefully this kick starts a debate. Your reply and...

"Getting scammed by a dodgy Security system salesman" should be added to the list.


We have 16 dogs including German Shepherds, Huskies and terriers. No need for a security system here

...from the survey post are quite common attitudes (I expected more negativity). It's noticeable that your response only refers to point 3 (attitudes), and nothing regarding points 1 and 2.

As I mentioned above, this survey was less about the survey, and primarily about the thinking - or provoking the thinking.

For anyone, no matter how large or small an organisation, to have appropriate security need to:

A) Understand their organisation (their people and the importance of the different assets they have to operate the business properly)​

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B) Understand the threats (types of crimes and from who)​

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C) Understand their organisations vulnerabilities (weaknesses)​

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D) Assess their risks, then take appropriate measures.​

It's a waste spending money on security measures protecting something that doesn't need it, or would be cheaper to replace. You only need to secure what is significant to you/your organisation - whether it is the continuity of your operations or high cost that you can't afford.

I feel your frustration. I'm a farmer's son, from a long line of farmers stretching back generations on both sides of the family. I grew up on a few hundred acre dairy and arable farm in Yorkshire, where my 76-year old father and older brother still farm - although the dairy was switched to beef a few years back. If there was enough to be made for the three of us, I'd probably be there full time, instead of helping out for free every now and then.

I joined the military at 17, and have been carrying-out security around the world for over 20-years (check the website link below). I'm not on this forum to make money, sell anything or make friends. I'm here to help. If that means ruffling feathers, kicking bad attitudes up the arse, or throwing a metaphorical bucket of cold water over people to make them wake up, then that is what I have no qualms in doing. Take it or leave it. It is no skin off my nose and doesn't affect my bank balance either way. I'm currently typing this from the middle of a landlocked African country, doing this in my own time.

I'm also a member of a couple WhatsApp/SMS groups, local to the family farm in Yorkshire. I'm aware of a recent spate of quad/ATV thefts around Whitby taken by people travelling from Teesside and County Durham area; GPS thefts across East Riding, and hare-coursers also around the East Riding. Rural crime is prevalent across the UK. Some farmers have to realise that they have a significant role to play, and get rid of the expectation that all the responsibility lies with the police.

Most of your every day, front-line bobbies want to help - but can only do so much with what they have. Whether in cities, towns or villages, the police can not do their jobs effectively or efficiently without the support from the public. A lot of basic security is common sense, simply put in to a logical format and thought process. I tend to agree with betweenthelines post regarding "dodgy Security system salesman".

There are many companies out there, that will try to sell you anything. CCTV is often the most common system purchased, but with very little thought behind it from the purchaser. People buy CCTV thinking that it is a deterrent all by itself - and all they have to do is install the CCTV and then that is it. It is not. You may as well hire a security guard, buy a comfy chair and let them go to sleep. Unless that guard is up and about, patrolling, checking, being alert and detecting intruders, they're a waste of time and money.

Same goes for the CCTV. If all you're doing is looking back at footage of your equipment been taken out the front gate, then you've lost your money, twice - the purchase of the CCTV and what ever has been stolen. Your CCTV needs to be telling you that someone is where they shouldn't be and something is happening that shouldn't be. There and then. Either a CCTV controller watching in real-time, or an automatic alert to your phone.

Though, what is your lawful reaction/system/process to discovering someone is currently on your property trying to steal from you? Having 16 dogs as a deterrent comes to a lot of dog food and vet bills. This can be more expensive in the long run than other security systems. And then there is the Guard Dogs Act and the Dangerous Dogs Act to comply with, or face prosecution and having all 16 dogs destroyed. Because that's simply the law, no matter how many of us disagree with it. The security of my private home, in the middle of a northern city, is no one's responsibility but my own. Certainly not the police's.

The same goes for businesses or factories on industrial parks. And the same applies to farms. Everyone is fed up of crime. Everyone is frustrated at the lack of police presence due to underfunding and under resourcing. The police are also frustrated when they're faced with cantankerous attitudes and noticing that people are not prepared to help themselves, and don't address their vulnerabilities, and then wonder why they get targeted by criminals. If all you're going to do is whinge, and not take the issue seriously, then carry on. Keep posting incidents on the Crime Line thread in this forum (because that makes no difference either) and avoid discussing taking security seriously. With that attitude, nothing will change. Rural crime will continue to grow, and affect more and more people. If you want the rural crime situation to improve, then take your security responsibilities seriously.

You can take a horse to water, but you can't make it drink...​

 

[Clive]

I would think the low vote count is mainly because voting makes no difference and it’s all a bit ‘survey like’ and nobody ever likes surveys. They are usually pointless. I mean this with no offence.

Farming like a lot of other industries is under pretty much constant criminal activity from diesel theft to poaching right through to entire machines. I’m part of a WhatsApp group and could tell you of a dozen break ins or cases of hare coursing per week with ease just in my local area. We ourselves had a man walk right into the yard last week at 8.30pm smash a truck window and take something from the cab.

yep, its just a fact of rural life

take my recent diesel theft, I really can't even be bothered reporting it as doing so will make no difference. My time is better spent putting up more fencing and security lights

 

[Ranger Security Solutions]

yep, its just a fact of rural life

take my recent diesel theft, I really can't even be bothered reporting it as doing so will make no difference. My time is better spent putting up more fencing and security lights

Yes, and no.

It will make no difference to you, right now.

But by informing the police, if not to get them to come out and give you a cuddle, it does allow them to collate all the crimes in their Area of Responsibility (AOR).

This information gets passed up the food chain, to the person with the money. They then decide how the funds and resources are allocated.

If they think that there is no rural crime in their AOR, guess what... rural policing gets less and less funds in future, sent instead to areas where they are led to believe there is crime. Someone else is getting your share because you were to shy to speak up. Doing nothing achieves nothing. And the cycle continues.

Granted, its not an overnight change... but then government rarely is. But change will only come with changing habits.

 

[Clive]

Yes, and no.

It will make no difference to you, right now.

But by informing the police, if not to get them to come out and give you a cuddle, it does allow them to collate all the crimes in their Area of Responsibility (AOR).

This information gets passed up the food chain, to the person with the money. They then decide how the funds and resources are allocated.

If they think that there is no rural crime in their AOR, guess what... rural policing gets less and less funds in future, sent instead to areas where they are led to believe there is crime. Someone else is getting your share because you were to shy to speak up. Doing nothing achieves nothing. And the cycle continues.

Granted, its not an overnight change... but then government rarely is. But change will only come with changing habits.

i have better more productive things to do than waste my time chatting to police men who have no intention of doing anything more than paperwork

it’s a waste of my time and theirs

 

[Clive]

now ………. anyone know a online supplier of land mines ?

 

[Ranger Security Solutions]

i have better more productive things to do than waste my time chatting to police men who have no intention of doing anything more than paperwork

it’s a waste of my time and theirs

I guess you'll use your precious time putting up fences, lights and talking to your insurance company.

 

[Ranger Security Solutions]

There are many companies out there, that will try to sell you anything. CCTV is often the most common system purchased, but with very little thought behind it from the purchaser. People buy CCTV thinking that it is a deterrent all by itself - and all they have to do is install the CCTV and then that is it. It is not. You may as well hire a security guard, buy a comfy chair and let them go to sleep. Unless that guard is up and about, patrolling, checking, being alert and detecting intruders, they're a waste of time and money.

Same goes for the CCTV. If all you're doing is looking back at footage of your equipment been taken out the front gate, then you've lost your money, twice - the purchase of the CCTV and what ever has been stolen. Your CCTV needs to be telling you that someone is where they shouldn't be and something is happening that shouldn't be. There and then. Either a CCTV controller watching in real-time, or an automatic alert to your phone.

You can take a horse to water, but you can't make it drink...​

Case in point really...

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1620713328460038150

 

[mobileweld]

I would like a 240v powered perimeter beam alarm which works via wifi and through an app to alert me if someone or a vehicle comes in the yard. As yet I can’t find such a thing. Maybe I’m not looking in the right places but all are either battery solar powered or want me to have a sim ect and send texts for alerts. Surely there is a product which would use an app? I want ultra reliable. Something that doesn’t get false alarms.

 

[Ranger Security Solutions]

I would like a 240v powered perimeter beam alarm which works via wifi and through an app to alert me if someone or a vehicle comes in the yard. As yet I can’t find such a thing. Maybe I’m not looking in the right places but all are either battery solar powered or want me to have a sim ect and send texts for alerts. Surely there is a product which would use an app? I want ultra reliable. Something that doesn’t get false alarms.

to alert me if someone or a vehicle comes in the yard - this is your desired objective

wifi connect perimeter beam alarm - this is your preferred means of detection

240v powered - this is your preferred means of power supply

product which would use an app - this is your preferred method of alert notification


battery - you do not want this type of power supply

solar powered - you do not want this type of power supply

sim ect and send texts for alerts - you do not want this method of alert notification


OK, can I ask how many entrances you have, and any other ways to enter the property without using official entrances? Over walls, fences or gaps through hedges? That can bypass gateway beam detectors.

Why a beam alarm over any other methods of detection? Gateway beams are not that highly regarded, which is one reason why there is not as much investment in their development, compared to other products, though they can be somewhat cheaper. A beam alarm will alert you that the beam has been broken, just as a CCTV camera with built-in motion sensor will notify you that there is movement within the cameras area - though with a live image, you can see for yourself exactly who it is. Many CCTV systems come with an app.

Why is mains power your preferred option over battery or solar? What back up will you have for mains power outages? I'd probably look for mains with battery back up; or long life battery for remote locations.

What is your expectation from an app, that you can not get from an SMS alert? An app will send you a notification of an alert, but unless the beam is integrated with a camera anyway, you're going to have to go check outside, or return back from where ever you are, who it is every time you get an alert. If it is integrated with a camera, then why not get a camera with built-in motion sensor and save yourself some money?

Personally, I wouldn't want to get tied to a SIM contract but pay as you go may be an option and some apps may be subscription based too. Wifi may be good to connect from the detection device to the internet, but then wherever you are requires the internet to connect to your device. Long Range Wide Area Network (LoRaWAN) and Internet of Things (IoT) are growing technologies in the security market, but they need some small additional infrastructure too.

Without knowing your full circumstances, a beam alarm may be a waste of money, and I couldn't provide definitive recommendations. But have a look at this as an option...

Invisifence Underground Sensors | Safe Security Solutions

Invisifence is a buried seismic detection security sensors which can detect instances of footsteps / vehicles or both from intruders. Contact us for info.

safess.co.uk

SensoGuard | Home Perimeter security

SensoGuard's buried ground sensors for home perimeter security, will protect your home from any kind of unwanted intrusion. learn more here

www.sensoguard.com

You are right, in that you should be detecting potential intruders at your perimeter - or earlier. But if you're going to invest in a product, it should be fit for purpose and make life easier, not generate more activity, physically taking time to check every notification when the device is triggered.

Once you have been alerted, how quick is your response going to be? Whatever you are securing needs sufficient protection that will last for longer than the time it takes for the response to arrive.

For example. If the response takes ten minutes to arrive, then it should take at least 15 minutes hard effort to get to what ever the criminals are after... in a locked barn, in a locked cage, in a strong cabinet.

It's OK being instantly alerted to an intruder, but if its going to take you 20 or 30 minutes to arrive, you've not gained anything, if all they need to do is smash, grab and run. Just advanced notice that you're going to be really rather cheesed off when you arrive. Some slight fortification of buildings, and thought process to where kit and equipment is stored may be needed too.

 

[suffolksmallholder]

Pay your insurance and when the need arises, claim. Hoping your insurance co is up to the task.
More importantly and this is the hard part; itemise every tool with dop and serial nos as this will help if they go missing. Beyond that making access difficult is a priotity.
Getting the police on site short of murder in this day and age is wistful thinking.

Of course if you threaten the supposed thieves with anything even vaguely resembling a firearms things will happen pdq and not in your favour! Meh!!!

 

[Ranger Security Solutions]

Pay your insurance and when the need arises, claim. Hoping your insurance co is up to the task.
More importantly and this is the hard part; itemise every tool with dop and serial nos as this will help if they go missing. Beyond that making access difficult is a priotity.
Getting the police on site short of murder in this day and age is wistful thinking.

Of course if you threaten the supposed thieves with anything even vaguely resembling a firearms things will happen pdq and not in your favour! Meh!!!

Insurance should be a safety net (and not always a reliable one), not a security strategy.

Fighting with your insurance to pay for stolen kit, may help you recover some (probably not all) of your losses, but it doesn't help you in the meantime when you're trying to crack on with work, with essential equipment missing. It doesn't make you a reliable partner to do business with if you are having to say "no" because you've been targeted by criminals.

Though, yes... itemise all equipment, log serial numbers, take photos, apply police/insurance approved ID markers, to help you recover items and reduce the re-sale value for thieves, though many high value items go overseas anyway. Just hopefully have sufficient security in place so you never have to call up your insurance, and never have to call customers to say "no can do".

 

[mobileweld]

i already have cctv which ideally I don’t want to alter or change as it works and is good enough for what I need. Can see a number plate ect and has good enough night vision. The thing is struggles with is the alerts. I can’t have the alerts on as I would be up all night it goes off if cars go past with high beams on and if it’s foggy.

The yard has Wi-Fi everywhere I would need. Just need a simple and reliable way of detecting a vehicle or person. Then if I get an alert I can have a quick look on the camera.

Going back to the thief last week he just walked in, parked his truck the other side of our gate and strolled in. Security lights were coming on but he was in a balaclava and wasn’t fussed about being on camera. The yard is vehicle proof at night however to make it person proof would be a huge expense.

 

[Ranger Security Solutions]

You're going to struggle to get the exact match to your specs, but you can achieve your desired objective of being notified when some one enters your property - which the objective takes precedence over the preferred specs. Motion sensors tend to be a bit more effective than beams, as they cover a wider area/zone (so long as you position and angle the device correctly). Though you need to ensure that the equipment can distinguish between small animals and birds, or humans and vehicles.

A couple of options for you to consider:

Wireless Motion Sensor | Alerts to Smartphone | STS Secure

NO WIFI OR POWER REQUIRED. Simply turn the device on, pair it with your smartphone and stick it to a wall. In less than 10 minutes you have a wireless motion sensor for outdoor or indoors.

www.securetracksense.com

Outdoor Motion Sensor

INTRODUCTION: Smart wireless motion detector, for security and lighting control applications For Indoor & Outdoor use FEATURES: Motion/movement, person or object detection Real-time motion status displayed on the YoLink app Wireless; no 120V outlet or wiring required Wall, pole or driveway...

shop.yosmart.com

Settings for CCTV notifications can be painful to mess around with, I've had that problem too in the past. But it may be worth revisiting to see if you can tweak the settings so every leaf or gust of wind doesn't set it off. It depends how sophisticated the system is. As I've highlighted, CCTV is only worthwhile if it's being monitored or notifying you that something is amiss. Criminals know that CCTV is very rarely used properly, it's like stealing from under the nose of a security guard in a deep sleep, so the intruders usually just don't care. I'm not surprised that the thief that you had was so brazen.

CCTV can be a very useful tool, if used properly, but it usually is not. Again, without knowing your layout, perimeter, buildings, barns, warehouses, garages, storage, offices, it's difficult to advise. Good procedure can also assist - so removing anything attractive from the vehicles, good housekeeping around the premises, putting kit and equipment away properly when the job is finished or at the end of the day, storing keys securely and separately, and so on, all helps to improve your overall security.

 

[mobileweld]

Thanks will take a look later. This was our man from last week. Balaclava, crow bar, and shining a torch about once out of this camera shot. Wasn’t fussed about the security light coming on and off.

 

[shumungus]

now ………. anyone know a online supplier of land mines ?

Ahemm, I'll just leave these here, now make sure you use blanks.

ALARM MINE for sale | eBay

Find great deals on eBay for ALARM MINE. Shop with confidence.

www.ebay.co.uk

Amazon.co.uk : shotgun trip alarm

Perimeter Alarm, Trip Wire, Booby Trap

Perimeter Alarm, Trip Wire, Booby Trap: I have a building about 300 feet from my residence. This building is a shed that houses lawn equipment, snow removal equipment, a pickup truck and misc. tools and fuel. The shed was built for storage and is not easy to secure (there is a 1 foot gap …

www.instructables.com

 

[Gone Shooting]

Keep reporting crime - yeah great if your police force gave a sh!t - Hereford waste of bloody time. Only ones that help and prosecute are our local fly tipping gang .

 

[Lamb's Orchard]

I report online. Doesn't take long and doesn't usually get a result, just a standard acknowledgement and taking no further action due to lack of evidence, but, by reporting it then has to be included in local area crime figures. If no-one ever reports then they will argue that crime is down and allocate even less resources. 🫤

 

[Still Farming]

Out of the domestic and business ratings systems, rates payable we all pay a precept part to the Police.
Here for instance it is well over £350 annually.
You add up say 200 plus house around here and suddenly a lot of money for Police we never see ?
Point being if money went to such private security firms then we possibly would get a 24/ 7 visual active personal service and major deterrent to the un wanted.?