Silvopasture

[martian]

I'm in two minds about the benefits of trees in pasture, ever since I saw Joel Salatin cutting down hedgerow trees as he didn't want his grazing animals camping under them in the heat or rain and thus concentrating their crap in one part of the field rather than all over the cell. But then he has developed giant wheeled umbrellas which he moves about to act as shade and thus fertilising the parts of the field that he wants trampling/crapping on. Can't see that happening here, so silvopasture it is.

We've planted a few oaks, over the years, in pasture fields, mostly to keep the old parkland looking like parkland. But it's always quite a performance to build a cattle proof guard. So I'm interested to see how well these things work. They're called Cacti or Hedgehogs or something, covered with spikes on the outside and very quick to put up. The cattle ignored our test run, so we've stuck a few fruit trees in next to the Groundswell site (with encouragement from the Woodland Trust) and once we'd established the trees are alive, put the guards on last week.

Anyone got any experience of these?

 

[martian]

I'm in two minds about the benefits of trees in pasture, ever since I saw Joel Salatin cutting down hedgerow trees as he didn't want his grazing animals camping under them in the heat or rain and thus concentrating their crap in one part of the field rather than all over the cell. But then he has developed giant wheeled umbrellas which he moves about to act as shade and thus fertilising the parts of the field that he wants trampling/crapping on. Can't see that happening here, so silvopasture it is.

We've planted a few oaks, over the years, in pasture fields, mostly to keep the old parkland looking like parkland. But it's always quite a performance to build a cattle proof guard. So I'm interested to see how well these things work. They're called Cacti or Hedgehogs or something, covered with spikes on the outside and very quick to put up. The cattle ignored our test run, so we've stuck a few fruit trees in next to the Groundswell site (with encouragement from the Woodland Trust) and once we'd established the trees are alive, put the guards on last week.

Anyone got any experience of these?

Thought I'd forgotten something

 

[Poorbuthappy]

No experience but how expensive are they John? Wanting to put more trees in here but dont like the idea of building great wooden protective structures around them.

 

[Samcowman]

What about metal IBC frames around them secured with a couple of posts. Most of us have got a few hanging around.

 

[BobTheSmallholder]

Interesting but can't see how it could be cost effective on a large scale, also ugly AF! What's the unit cost?

I'm planning on planting a few acres of silvopasture this coming winter and my plan for protection goes as far as buying more polywire and posts in bulk. Low wire for small beasts, high wire for larger beasts, anything that gets past them is welcome to a snack and I'll plant extra to allow for losses.

I'm in the process of planting up 500+ willows and other assorted trees (late, I know) which we've acquired for free. We can't afford to buy guards and stakes etc for them all so I've adopted the attitude that it's ok to lose a percentage to critters as long as they leave some.

I'd rather plant 3x as many trees to get the desired number than have thousands of bloody plastic guards littering the farm for years.

 

[BobTheSmallholder]

No experience but how expensive are they John? Wanting to put more trees in here but dont like the idea of building great wooden protective structures around them.

Electric fence?

 

[Poorbuthappy]

Electric fence?

With an energiser for every tree? Or how are you going to link trees dotted around fields?

 

[Samcowman]

Interesting but can't see how it could be cost effective on a large scale, also ugly AF! What's the unit cost?

I'm planning on planting a few acres of silvopasture this coming winter and my plan for protection goes as far as buying more polywire and posts in bulk. Low wire for small beasts, high wire for larger beasts, anything that gets past them is welcome to a snack and I'll plant extra to allow for losses.

I'm in the process of planting up 500+ willows and other assorted trees (late, I know) which we've acquired for free. We can't afford to buy guards and stakes etc for them all so I've adopted the attitude that it's ok to lose a percentage to critters as long as they leave some.

I'd rather plant 3x as many trees to get the desired number than have thousands of bloody plastic guards littering the farm for years.

For alleyways of trees like you are talking then an electric fence makes sense.
Talking of ugly AF on our most recent trip to NZ on our road trip from north to south a dairy farm had planted a lot of trees and used 2 blue barrels one on top of the other with bottoms cut out as tree guards. ?

 

[Gulli]

With an energiser for every tree? Or how are you going to link trees dotted around fields?

You could just stock fence round them with all the leftover bits of fence that I assume everyone else has

 

[Poorbuthappy]

You could just stock fence round them with all the leftover bits of fence that I assume everyone else has

That's what I've done in the past but making it bull proof is what I was referring to above with the "great wooden structures"

 

[Blaithin]

Fencing them off would be easy enough if you planted in rows. Even if the trees are widely spaced but still in a line you could just run wire down. If they're just randomly hodge podged around it'd be harder.

What is there to cause risk to the trees besides the livestock? Here many people will make similar to protect their little trees from deer, beavers, porcupines, etc. They all love to strip the bark for a snack and kill your trees in the process. For that matter, in high risk areas even mature trees tend to get page wire protection for a ways up the trunk.

What's your end goal vision for the pasture?

In my head when I see trees sporadically placed around a pasture, if it were to be cross fenced for grazing you're liable to have only one or two trees in each bit which would put animal focus on those one or two trees. Even if they don't camp under them they will scratch on them and try and eat any leaves they can reach a lot of the time.

If you put the trees in blocks or lines then you can fence off those areas and only let the cattle in them all at once. This would take pressure off any one tree and spread it to the group. Treed areas here are treated a lot like riparian areas. They aren't always places you want livestock to be and sometimes you want them to have shorter times than their regular grazing areas. If the trees are all in one place this gives you the flexibility of grazing them fast or not at all if it's not a good time of year.

Many silvopasture set ups work in alley form. The livestock graze the alley's in between the trees, they don't have to have access to the trees unless you want them too.

 

[SilliamWhale]

Why not just build more hedges? Trees dont really exist in singles do they

 

[Blaithin]

Why not just build more hedges? Trees dont really exist in singles do they

Do hedge species naturally exists in rows?

 

[Poorbuthappy]

Why not just build more hedges? Trees dont really exist in singles do they

Beautiful great oak in a field is a sight to behold imo

 

[Cowlife]

I ve put in a few parkland type trees. I built various shelters round them but still haven't hit on an ideal. Thought about the ibc cages but can't bring myself to use them. It's wetter here in Ireland so I m sticking with Scots pine type trees as I think they don't wet the ground or restrict grass growth as much in our smaller fields.
Would love to find a cow proof tree guard that's cheap.

 

[Gulli]

That's what I've done in the past but making it bull proof is what I was referring to above with the "great wooden structures"

I've got some nice Herefords that don't fight trees, maybe I should make that a selling point

Edited to add could you split the fields up so the fence is one side and then move it to the other side of the tree when you move the cattle on? Obviously dependent on layout etc.

 

[BobTheSmallholder]

With an energiser for every tree? Or how are you going to link trees dotted around fields?

By running a wire across the field? Do a little loop around the tree and off to the next... as this is in the holistic farming forum I assumed some form of mob/paddock/holistic grazing would be in use anyway so would be simple enough to incorporate electric fence into tree protection.

 

[BobTheSmallholder]

That's what I've done in the past but making it bull proof is what I was referring to above with the "great wooden structures"

A powerful energiser should deter any bull, I watched ours get his first taste of it the other day and he hasn't gone anywhere near it since he got 10kV across his forehead.

 

[Poorbuthappy]

By running a wire across the field? Do a little loop around the tree and off to the next... as this is in the holistic farming forum I assumed some form of mob/paddock/holistic grazing would be in use anyway so would be simple enough to incorporate electric fence into tree protection.

Yes I realise that's what you were thinking of, and certainly would work in some situations.
Some I did were fruit trees, trying to replant a 1/2 acre orchard - didnt really warrant dividing up! Got some outside our house which work in with the electric, and want to do more. But it doesn't always work.

 

[Poorbuthappy]

A powerful energiser should deter any bull, I watched ours get his first taste of it the other day and he hasn't gone anywhere near it since he got 10kV across his forehead.

Indeed, as will a not so powerful one?
Sheep are what need the power.