Small scale AD?

[Briar]

As the title alludes to, anyone with experience of small/farm scale AD plants, eg Farm250?
Looking to power farm, several houses, drying facilities, possibly vehicles and utilise fym/grass in order to make compost and digestate for an organic farm.

 

[sjt01]

As the title alludes to, anyone with experience of small/farm scale AD plants, eg Farm250?
Looking to power farm, several houses, drying facilities, possibly vehicles and utilise fym/grass in order to make compost and digestate for an organic farm.

We have been running a 170 kWe, 198 kWth plant on slurry, silage and whey since 2009. It is now much modified, I am happy to chat about it or have a visit if you want to come to North Norfolk. PM me if interested.

 

[upnortheast]

For another viewpoint @Chippy in Cumbria would be worth a chat.
Lot on this thread.
Thread 'My Biolectric 52kw AD Plant' https://thefarmingforum.co.uk/index.php?threads/my-biolectric-52kw-ad-plant.167556/

 

[Chippy]

My advice is avoid the Biolectric plants

 

[sjt01]

My advice is avoid the Biolectric plants

One tip I would advise any potential AD operator/investor is to go to an existing plant of the design you are contemplating, and speak to the person who operates, and most importantly maintains it. Don't just speak to whoever invested in it.

 

[Chippy]

One tip I would advise any potential AD operator/investor is to go to an existing plant of the design you are contemplating, and speak to the person who operates, and most importantly maintains it. Don't just speak to whoever invested in it.

I agree

 

[Briar]

Thanks guys for the feedback, I did look at AD plants some 10 plus years ago with a visit to several in Germany, albeit on a larger scale than I now envisage. I'm well aware that their is a difference between the sales pitch and reality, hence the request for actual experience.

 

[thesilentone]

The problem with small scale AD is cost, so the only way to make it economic is to cut corners (cost)

A 50kw or 500kw need the same kit, they are doing the same job. Obviously smaller for the 50kw.

The problem is, a 50kw plant is not 1/10th of the cost of a 500kw.

Making something work based on price, usually has a sorry story.

Unless you can hunt down Mike Cheshire or Richard Gueterbok and get them to design and build a bespoke plant.

 

[ringi]

The problem with small scale AD is cost, so the only way to make it economic is to cut corners (cost)

A 50kw or 500kw need the same kit, they are doing the same job. Obviously smaller for the 50kw.

The problem is, a 50kw plant is not 1/10th of the cost of a 500kw.

Making something work based on price, usually has a sorry story.

Unless you can hunt down Mike Cheshire or Richard Gueterbok and get them to design and build a bespoke plant.

That partly depends if the heat from the smaller AD has a higher value due to the location.

 

[sjt01]

The problem with small scale AD is cost, so the only way to make it economic is to cut corners (cost)

A 50kw or 500kw need the same kit, they are doing the same job. Obviously smaller for the 50kw.

The problem is, a 50kw plant is not 1/10th of the cost of a 500kw.

Making something work based on price, usually has a sorry story.

Unless you can hunt down Mike Cheshire or Richard Gueterbok and get them to design and build a bespoke plant.

I would avoid Michael's more recent designs. I would tend to follow Russell Mulliner, ex-Greenfinch, now Marches Biogas, but not a well man unfortunately.

 

[ploughman1963]

I would avoid Michael's more recent designs. I would tend to follow Russell Mulliner, ex-Greenfinch, now Marches Biogas, but not a well man unfortunately.

I was at school with Russell - I am sorry to hear that.

 

[ploughman1963]

@Dalos What are your thoughts?

 

[thesilentone]

That partly depends if the heat from the smaller AD has a higher value due to the location.

Problem is, small scale, after process heat, there is not allot left.

 

[ringi]

Problem is, small scale, after process heat, there is not allot left.

Unless the gas is used for on site CHP, otherwise I see no point to AD as AD increase food/feed import to the UK.

 

[thesilentone]

Unless the gas is used for on site CHP, otherwise I see no point to AD as AD increase food/feed import to the UK.

Not sure what you mean How does AD increase food/feed import to the UK ?

Small scale AD tends to be slurry/manure/waste silage etc based feedstocks, so a very good business proposition if the returns are good enough.

The landbank used for larger scale AD when crop such as Maize, Veg Waste etc is pretty insignificant if it's compared to the likes of biodiesel, whiskey, pharmaceutical crops and a whole host of industrial crops.

 

[sjt01]

The landbank used for larger scale AD when crop such as Maize, Veg Waste etc is pretty insignificant if it's compared to the likes of biodiesel, whiskey, pharmaceutical crops and a whole host of industrial crops.

Not only that, but pony paddocks, golf courses and the rest.

 

[Briar]

My intention is to use the gas on farm for CHP, heating and drying grain from using fym from liveries and crop residues no slurry. Then to use the resulting digestate and solids on our organic farm. So a closed loop for the nutrients, with possibly some herbal mix and grass from our temporary farm "rides". In essence a source of heat, power and fertiliser from on farm "waste".

 

[deleted user 436632456]

I seen a quote last week for a 150kw farm level plant. A complete package with all bells and whistles and all the infrastructure needed including silo's etc.

A lot of groundworks and concrete needed and a hefty connection charge, let's just say there wouldn't be much change out of £16,000 per kw.

I would like to think that you would build a 500 for double the money but with a 233% increase in output.

 

[sjt01]

My intention is to use the gas on farm for CHP, heating and drying grain from using fym from liveries and crop residues no slurry. Then to use the resulting digestate and solids on our organic farm. So a closed loop for the nutrients, with possibly some herbal mix and grass from our temporary farm "rides". In essence a source of heat, power and fertiliser from on farm "waste".

Be aware of the amount of energy needed to get the fym chopped up and into the digester. We were planning to use it, but I reckon it took almost as much energy to feed it as you can get out of it. If you let it rot down a bit then you will have used up the best of the energy for that. The only system that makes sense to me was the Portagester that was developed by Chris Reynell I seem to remember. The idea was that you put the muck into an adapted sheeted tipping trailer equipped with pumps, flushed digester contents into it, allowed the goodies to go into the liquid which was then drained off back to the digester and the straw tipped. It must be about 15 years since I saw the system in Hampshire.

 

[ploughman1963]

So a system using a slurry separator would be suited?