Subsoiler for flattest finish.

[DrWazzock]

Which subsoiler leaves the flattest finish?
Ransome 2 leg , no.
Paraplow , no.
Something with a roller on the back and discs in front?
I am trying to get to a no till situation but some will need subsoiling when it’s dry I the autumn.
However, if it doesn’t leave it level then it’s not good.

 

[KB6930]

You'll probably want a grassland subsoiler of some sort .

There should be plenty around they were in fashion a few years ago now but most haven't seen use for a while

 

[DrWazzock]

First stage after harvest is stubble cultivator to incorporate residue. Then subsoil where necessary then drill. But if doesn’t leave it level the drill struggles to achieve consistent depth.

 

[KB6930]

If it stays dry like this the ground will crack enough yet the subsoiler won't be needed?

We have a kv subsoiler and it doesn't leave a level job I tend to just sink the trio as deep as I can get it now at least the whole lot gets shattered with the narrower leg space.

I've never seen a grassland one going but I'm all the literature about them it looks nice and level but round here they pulled up too many stones so were a short lived fad . 6m folding ballast rollers with harrows and seed boxes are the new in thing

 

[deleted user 837354]

I've used a variety of subsoilers and when it is dry they all leave a rough finish- the roller behind merely pressed the lumps down, you still have a rough time if you try to drive across the lines.

I know some versions have a following row of discs or spring tines but I'd be surprised if they achieve much in dry conditions.

I used to zip along in a Fastrac with simba discs to level out subsoiling. Done right it would be drill ready.

 

[Adeptandy]

This does a good job, leaves it nice and level, but you will feel it at 90 degrees, 5 legs and 2 rows of discs then packer.

 

[Tim Howard]

This does a good job, leaves it nice and level, but you will feel it at 90 degrees, 5 legs and 2 rows of discs then packer.

Check if you have a pan first and see how deep it is. Deep subsoil if it's needed but if not plan on working perhaps just 8" deep. There are a few of us doing shallow loosening tines that will do good work. I would forget about a grassland machine as you won't get enough shatter.
Subsoilers don't often have a cutting disc in front. If you can fit low disturbance feet you wont need them for arable work, it's often better to shallow cultivate before subsoiling.
Machines with front mounted tines then discs are best used when you have moisture as they can leave it very lumpy when it's too dry.
If you do it right and keep away from root crops you will not need the subsoiler after a few years so don't spend too much.

 

[DrWazzock]

Check if you have a pan first and see how deep it is. Deep subsoil if it's needed but if not plan on working perhaps just 8" deep. There are a few of us doing shallow loosening tines that will do good work. I would forget about a grassland machine as you won't get enough shatter.
Subsoilers don't often have a cutting disc in front. If you can fit low disturbance feet you wont need them for arable work, it's often better to shallow cultivate before subsoiling.
Machines with front mounted tines then discs are best used when you have moisture as they can leave it very lumpy when it's too dry.
If you do it right and keep away from root crops you will not need the subsoiler after a few years so don't spend too much.

Thank you. I have a plough pan about 8” down due to ploughing in unsuitable conditions. It’s quite noticeable and in fact the plough will now struggle to break through it or if it does it is really going deeper than I would like.
I have a Ransomes 2 leg which breaks the pan fairly well and greatly helps drainage but leaves the surface very rough.
Interesting what you say about grassland machines. I hadn’t realised they wouldn’t provide enough shatter at depth.
I have used subsoiler landslides on the plough before but they can be a bit sore on the plough legs when they encounter a deep buried stone. Anyway I want to reduce ploughing generally but we do have sugar beet with does cane the structure in a wet winter.
I might just add a third leg to my Ransomes to speed the job up a bit, or maybe 4 closer spaces would leave a more level finish.

 

[Tim Howard]

Thank you. I have a plough pan about 8” down due to ploughing in unsuitable conditions. It’s quite noticeable and in fact the plough will now struggle to break through it or if it does it is really going deeper than I would like.
I have a Ransomes 2 leg which breaks the pan fairly well and greatly helps drainage but leaves the surface very rough.
Interesting what you say about grassland machines. I hadn’t realised they wouldn’t provide enough shatter at depth.
I have used subsoiler landslides on the plough before but they can be a bit sore on the plough legs when they encounter a deep buried stone. Anyway I want to reduce ploughing generally but we do have sugar beet with does cane the structure in a wet winter.
I might just add a third leg to my Ransomes to speed the job up a bit, or maybe 4 closer spaces would leave a more level finish.

I read the post but I didn't check to see it was you, sorry. It should be easy to fit a third leg but move away from Ransomes feet if you can. All cultivation's can cause a pan and those old subsoiler points are no exception although they did a lighter leg that was ahead of it's time. Have a check around, Most of the newer feet will take a lot less pulling and do a better job.

 

[GeorgeK]

Not exactly no till but nice and level!

https://thefarmingforum.co.uk/index.php?threads/subsoiler-power-harrow-combination.6822/

 

[Will 1594]

Dr w What do you cultivate with first , we do knight 'c' press first ,then twb subsoiler with 800 mm razor ring ,dd type packer ,with either shakerator ,or normal ,or low disturbance legs , leaves it lovely and level
These points and legs are superb ,let them wear back a bot to see where ferobide needs putting ,
Have a ransomes subtiller frame ,with 5 legs ,and cousins razor ring packer ,which maybe available ,£2500 with set of new 12 mm low disturbance legs in ,but no points or wings

 

[DrWazzock]

If the straw has been baled I direct drill straight in.
If the straw had been chopped I incorporate it with a terra disc which has 7 shallow running
legs discs and a cross kill roller. It does a reasonable job which is level, weathers down to a tilth and drills either in the autumn or spring.
But if there is compaction or a pan that needs breaking my present options are either Ransomes 2 leg subsoiler which does break the pan but leaves it undulating or paraplow which leaves it slightly more level but not ideal. I only have 135 hp. Usually I have to resort to power harrow to level up subsoiler ridges. Was just wondering if there was a subsoiler that left of level enough to weather down ready for drilling without the “rigging” effect.

 

[Will 1594]

Low disturbance legs and dd or razor packer

 

[Spanish]

one with michel-type bars and a control roller that decomposes the subsoil and leaves the surface intact

 

[tr250]

on opico stand at lamma I saw a machine called a stealth I think that had been designed for the job. Personally if the land is in good condition we direct drill if not we sumo trio and start again. I love direct drilling but if there’s an issue we won’t hesitate to lift it all up I’m not so sure subsoiling and dd go together

 

[it's not over]

This is an erth panbuster. Mainly subsoiling to improve drainage as we get alot if rain in n.antrim. subsoiling at a level 10 to 12 inches. Leaves a tidy job but erth could do with some improvements on components mainly around the discs

Hard to pull at depth but I suppose if it wasnt I wouldn't really need to subsoil

 

[Brisel]

Sumo GLS has quite low disturbance legs and a hefty packer on the back. Less heave = less cracking of the pan you're trying to break. It also needs to dry out afterwards which is why a rough open finish is sometime desirable.

Before modern tillage trains were developed, a set of discs & press would be the first pass, then a subsoiler and packer as a later pass. There would be less heaving up of big clods this way.

 

[deleted user 837354]

Sumo GLS has quite low disturbance legs and a hefty packer on the back. Less heave = less cracking of the pan you're trying to break. It also needs to dry out afterwards which is why a rough open finish is sometime desirable.

Before modern tillage trains were developed, a set of discs & press would be the first pass, then a subsoiler and packer as a later pass. There would be less heaving up of big clods this way.

I agree but the trouble was in a drier season, the discs wouldn't do anything on the first go around!

 

[Wigeon]

This was my attempt at this in the autumn- ran deeper than paint on legs shows, this was just starting out.

Pretty good, but towing cambridge roller would be flatter. Leg conversions from weavings. Pretty pleased with it, nice bow wave across full width.

 

[quattro]

If the straw has been baled I direct drill straight in.
If the straw had been chopped I incorporate it with a terra disc which has 7 shallow running
legs discs and a cross kill roller. It does a reasonable job which is level, weathers down to a tilth and drills either in the autumn or spring.
But if there is compaction or a pan that needs breaking my present options are either Ransomes 2 leg subsoiler which does break the pan but leaves it undulating or paraplow which leaves it slightly more level but not ideal. I only have 135 hp. Usually I have to resort to power harrow to level up subsoiler ridges. Was just wondering if there was a subsoiler that left of level enough to weather down ready for drilling without the “rigging” effect.

I use a NRH 5 leg with the big packer that leaves it nice and level