Tescorona

[delilah]

Every Little Hurts

 

[neilo]

Really?

Are you trying to suggest Tesco are somehow responsible for bringing Covid19 to the UK? By extension, are you suggesting that anyone else that has bought something that’s ‘made in China’ has done the same?

Get a grip.

 

[delilah]

Really?

Are you trying to suggest Tesco are somehow responsible for bringing Covid19 to the UK? By extension, are you suggesting that anyone else that has bought something that’s ‘made in China’ has done the same?

Get a grip.

You will have read enough of my posts to know what I am saying. Globalization of the food supply chain presents a range of disadvantages that are not accounted for by the free market model. The fact that these externalities - pollution, congestion, waste - are not paid for in the price of the product is why these products are 'cheap'. We all know that, it's nothing new. The suggestion that global trade brings pests, disease and alien species to the UK is not exactly a revellation, we have countless examples.

Are you suggesting that globalization has not led to the more rapid spread of infectious disease ? Get a grip.

 

[Goweresque]

You will have read enough of my posts to know what I am saying. Globalization of the food supply chain presents a range of disadvantages that are not accounted for by the free market model. The fact that these externalities - pollution, congestion, waste - are not paid for in the price of the product is why these products are 'cheap'. We all know that, it's nothing new. The suggestion that global trade brings pests, disease and alien species to the UK is not exactly a revellation, we have countless examples.

Are you suggesting that globalization has not led to the more rapid spread of infectious disease ? Get a grip.

Given CV is a disease of people, not shipping containers, unless you plan to lock every country down in a North Korea style with no one coming in or out, diseases will travel. The Black Death managed to travel from the East to the UK, albeit slowly, in an era when the only travel was sailing ship, horse or by foot. Similarly the Spanish Flu of 1918/19 went all around the world in an era when most people still hardly travelled outside of their county.

People travel, diseases travel with them. It has nothing to do with globalisation.

 

[vantage]

Can’t see many viruses surviving 26 days in a shipping container. Who else is going to make “rubber dog turd” apart from the Chinese?
(Anyone on here a “Top Gun” fan?)

 

[delilah]

Given CV is a disease of people, not shipping containers, unless you plan to lock every country down in a North Korea style with no one coming in or out, diseases will travel. The Black Death managed to travel from the East to the UK, albeit slowly, in an era when the only travel was sailing ship, horse or by foot. Similarly the Spanish Flu of 1918/19 went all around the world in an era when most people still hardly travelled outside of their county.

People travel, diseases travel with them. It has nothing to do with globalisation.

I thought that lockdown was, precisely, what we were trying to implement right now ?
I have written on other threads about Eyam. They recognised - with zero medical knowledge - that you had to lockdown at a communal level. You cannot expect folks to lockdown at an individual household level for weeks on end, which is why our policy is flawed. Eire have it right, lockdown at a communal level, ie can't travel more than 2km from home. And you can only lockdown at a communal level if you have a robust local food economy, ie local shops. Why can't we lockdown at a communal level ? Because everyone has to drive to Tesco, that's why. It's all connected.

 

[delilah]

Can’t see many viruses surviving 26 days in a shipping container. Who else is going to make “rubber dog turd” apart from the Chinese?
(Anyone on here a “Top Gun” fan?)

No, I wasn't saying, specifically, that Corvid 19 came in a shipping container. I was searching for images to demonstrate how the Tesco business model relies, absolutely, on a global supply chain, and that video rather did the job for me. Globalization has many ills that are not accounted for by the free market, the rapid spread of disease belongs on the list.

 

[beardface]

Given CV is a disease of people, not shipping containers, unless you plan to lock every country down in a North Korea style with no one coming in or out, diseases will travel. The Black Death managed to travel from the East to the UK, albeit slowly, in an era when the only travel was sailing ship, horse or by foot. Similarly the Spanish Flu of 1918/19 went all around the world in an era when most people still hardly travelled outside of their county.

People travel, diseases travel with them. It has nothing to do with globalisation.

Utter tripe globalisation makes viruses and diseases far more communicable. Spanish flu spread from returning soldiers and people looking to start a new life in the southern hemisphere. Black travelled by ship through the rats on board. Hence the overwhelming need in light of coronavirus for the world to assess globalisation and its affect on the world and in particular at risk societies and domestic economies.

 

[Hilly]

Given CV is a disease of people, not shipping containers, unless you plan to lock every country down in a North Korea style with no one coming in or out, diseases will travel. The Black Death managed to travel from the East to the UK, albeit slowly, in an era when the only travel was sailing ship, horse or by foot. Similarly the Spanish Flu of 1918/19 went all around the world in an era when most people still hardly travelled outside of their county.

People travel, diseases travel with them. It has nothing to do with globalisation.

They ain’t all on their holly bobs you know lol

 

[Hilly]

No, I wasn't saying, specifically, that Corvid 19 came in a shipping container. I was searching for images to demonstrate how the Tesco business model relies, absolutely, on a global supply chain, and that video rather did the job for me. Globalization has many ills that are not accounted for by the free market, the rapid spread of disease belongs on the list.

100% spot on !

 

[Goweresque]

I thought that lockdown was, precisely, what we were trying to implement right now ?
I have written on other threads about Eyam. They recognised - with zero medical knowledge - that you had to lockdown at a communal level. You cannot expect folks to lockdown at an individual household level for weeks on end, which is why our policy is flawed. Eire have it right, lockdown at a communal level, ie can't travel more than 2km from home. And you can only lockdown at a communal level if you have a robust local food economy, ie local shops. Why can't we lockdown at a communal level ? Because everyone has to drive to Tesco, that's why. It's all connected.

The country isn't locked down. Flights are continuing daily, as are ships. In order to prevent diseases coming into a country via people you would have to lock it down 24/7, forever. No person comes in or out, ever. Is that the sort of society you want to live in? A prison camp?

And if you have a 'robust local economy' you get more deaths. Because when your food supply is dependent of one small area then the risks of crop failure rise exponentially. How much food would be available in the Severn valley area after all the floods of earlier this year? They'd be a bit hungry by now if they couldn't get food from outside their 'robust local economy'. You don't seem to under stand that trade (whether on a national or international level) actually reduces risks of shortages, not increases them. It doesn't eliminate them entirely, as all human life has risks, but it does reduce them, because you are increasing your supply locations from one to multiple.

 

[delilah]

The country isn't locked down. Flights are continuing daily, as are ships. In order to prevent diseases coming into a country via people you would have to lock it down 24/7, forever. No person comes in or out, ever. Is that the sort of society you want to live in? A prison camp?

And if you have a 'robust local economy' you get more deaths. Because when your food supply is dependent of one small area then the risks of crop failure rise exponentially. How much food would be available in the Severn valley area after all the floods of earlier this year? They'd be a bit hungry by now if they couldn't get food from outside their 'robust local economy'. You don't seem to under stand that trade (whether on a national or international level) actually reduces risks of shortages, not increases them. It doesn't eliminate them entirely, as all human life has risks, but it does reduce them, because you are increasing your supply locations from one to multiple.

Having a 'robust local economy' does not mean every borough growing its own milling wheat. Show me where, in all of my posts on this issue, I have suggested that a robust local food economy means only eating food grown in the local area.

What a 'robust local economy' does mean is every borough - to follow the milling wheat example - having its own bakery. As opposed to the oh-so-efficient just-in-time world of today, where bread lorries are flying past each other in the early hours hauling identical loaves of white sliced the length and breadth (see what I did there) of the UK.

As many have pointed out in recent days, it isn't food production that is groaning, but food distribution. The food chain is where the failure is. Market share is the root of all evil.

 

[Goweresque]

What a 'robust local economy' does mean is every borough - to follow the milling wheat example - having its own bakery. As opposed to the oh-so-efficient just-in-time world of today, where bread lorries are flying past each other in the early hours hauling identical loaves of white sliced the length and breadth (see what I did there) of the UK.

Most areas have a bakery or two. They are small and more expensive than large ones. If they weren't small shops would be able to undercut the supermarket chains, and they can't, we know that. Bread is cheaper in a supermarket than a local bakery. So your 'local production' model is just going to make food far more expensive for everyone, which will hit the poor the hardest.

And how exactly are you going to police your local production? Lets say the baker in town A is more efficient (or works harder) than the baker in town B. Is the Baker A going to be forbidden to sell his cheaper bread in town B? If so then town B is going to be forced to pay more for bread. Indeed every baker will have a monopoly in his area and able to charge whatever he likes because he knows he can have no competition. If Baker A is allowed to sell his bread in Town B, then if he's cheaper he'll put Baker B out of business, and Town B will no longer have a bakery. Bang goes local production.

We've tried the State direction of the economy to death (literally) in the 20th century and it didn't work. It certainly created a shortage of bread, which hasn't happened here even in the current situation. I'm old enough to remember the pictures on the TV of what life was like behind the Iron Curtain, people queuing for food, stores with no goods. Ask anyone who lived through that what it was like, you won't have to go far to find someone in the Uk today brought up in the former Soviet Bloc.

 

[Rowland]

This is the main problem with food shopping!

Bins overflowing with OUT-OF-DATE food

Ajit Singh Atwal shared a series of images on social media that showed rubbish bins overflowing with discarded food which included loaves of bread, bananas and packs of chicken products.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[delilah]

Most areas have a bakery or two. They are small and more expensive than large ones. If they weren't small shops would be able to undercut the supermarket chains, and they can't, we know that. Bread is cheaper in a supermarket than a local bakery. So your 'local production' model is just going to make food far more expensive for everyone, which will hit the poor the hardest.

And how exactly are you going to police your local production? Lets say the baker in town A is more efficient (or works harder) than the baker in town B. Is the Baker A going to be forbidden to sell his cheaper bread in town B? If so then town B is going to be forced to pay more for bread. Indeed every baker will have a monopoly in his area and able to charge whatever he likes because he knows he can have no competition. If Baker A is allowed to sell his bread in Town B, then if he's cheaper he'll put Baker B out of business, and Town B will no longer have a bakery. Bang goes local production.

We've tried the State direction of the economy to death (literally) in the 20th century and it didn't work. It certainly created a shortage of bread, which hasn't happened here even in the current situation. I'm old enough to remember the pictures on the TV of what life was like behind the Iron Curtain, people queuing for food, stores with no goods. Ask anyone who lived through that what it was like, you won't have to go far to find someone in the Uk today brought up in the former Soviet Bloc.

You want to talk about the poor ? The poorest wards in the UK are now food deserts - certainly when it comes to fresh, healthy food - due to the loss of local shops. There are many areas where you will starve - or have to live on red bull and monster munch - if you don't have a car or the money and time for the bus to get to a supermarket.

Why is supermarket bread cheaper ? Because all of the externalities of supermarket bread - pollution, congestion, road capacity - are paid for by the taxpayer not the supermarket.

You think the state shouldn't interfere ? That's just daft, the state interferes in every aspect of the food chain from supporting farmers to allowing supermarkets to bribe local authorities via section 106 agreements. I am simply suggesting that this interference needs to be redirected, from encouraging market share concentration and instead promoting market share reversal.

Who said anything about communism ?

 

[Tarw Coch]

Most areas have a bakery or two. They are small and more expensive than large ones. If they weren't small shops would be able to undercut the supermarket chains, and they can't, we know that. Bread is cheaper in a supermarket than a local bakery. So your 'local production' model is just going to make food far more expensive for everyone, which will hit the poor the hardest.

And how exactly are you going to police your local production? Lets say the baker in town A is more efficient (or works harder) than the baker in town B. Is the Baker A going to be forbidden to sell his cheaper bread in town B? If so then town B is going to be forced to pay more for bread. Indeed every baker will have a monopoly in his area and able to charge whatever he likes because he knows he can have no competition. If Baker A is allowed to sell his bread in Town B, then if he's cheaper he'll put Baker B out of business, and Town B will no longer have a bakery. Bang goes local production.

We've tried the State direction of the economy to death (literally) in the 20th century and it didn't work. It certainly created a shortage of bread, which hasn't happened here even in the current situation. I'm old enough to remember the pictures on the TV of what life was like behind the Iron Curtain, people queuing for food, stores with no goods. Ask anyone who lived through that what it was like, you won't have to go far to find someone in the Uk today brought up in the former Soviet Bloc.

I’m not sure efficiency is the reason bread is cheaper in the supermarkets, is it not one of the staples that they use as a loss leader.

 

[icanshootwell]

This is the main problem with food shopping!

Bins overflowing with OUT-OF-DATE food

Ajit Singh Atwal shared a series of images on social media that showed rubbish bins overflowing with discarded food which included loaves of bread, bananas and packs of chicken products.

www.dailymail.co.uk

I just seen that , bloody disgrace, these d heads should be fined for wasting food.

 

[delilah]

Most on here will take The Grauniad, just sharing this for those who don't:

https://www.theguardian.com/comment...-supermarket-shelves-panic-is-not-the-problem

 

[DaveGrohl]

Most? Considering the garbage they usually print I doubt it.

 

[delilah]

Most? Considering the garbage they usually print I doubt it.

It was ironic; we all know this is a Torygraph pub .