UK, US and Australia launch landmark security pact

[kiwi pom]

Presume your country will be leaving Five Eyes arrangement shortly.

No idea, I believe NZ has a nuclear free zone that bans nuclear weapons and propulsion from our land, sea and air. Dates back to the 80's.

Is your PM introducing Mandarin as a compulsory school subject?

Wouldn't think so but not a bad idea as we trade with China quite a bit.
Don't see anything wrong with it myself.

 

[ollie989898]

Interesting that they have chosen to accept both US and UK designs??

It will be interesting to see if they get a single boat of their own in the 2030s. These things have long lead times.

Talk of the UK increasing it's boat order as well- I'll believe that when I see it.

 

[Muck Spreader]

Interesting that they have chosen to accept both US and UK designs??

It will be interesting to see if they get a single boat of their own in the 2030s. These things have long lead times.

Talk of the UK increasing it's boat order as well- I'll believe that when I see it.

Apparently they will buy up to 5 S/H conventionally armed US subs that will be operational in the early 2030's.
After the design is finalised submarines are built sequentially at Barrow, usually taking 9 to 10 years each until they become operational. So, probably 25 years minimum before the Ozzies get a new one. And a lot of governments changing their minds.

 

[ollie989898]

Apparently they will buy up to 5 S/H conventionally armed US subs that will be operational in the early 2030's.
After the design is finalised submarines are built sequentially at Barrow, usually taking 9 to 10 years each until they become operational. So, probably 25 years minimum before the Ozzies get a new one. And a lot of governments changing their minds.

Ahhh that makes sense. Need nuclear power in an ocean that big and they have access to cruise missiles and the like so still have an important capability. I didn't think the Australians would want nuclear weapons.

 

[nivilla1982]

Seems to be basically the next submarine design to replace the Astute class ones currently in UK service will now be a joint project?
Apparently only the second time the US has agreed to share nuclear Sub tech since the 1958 UK-US Agreement.

AUKUS Defence Partnership

– in the House of Commons at 3:09 pm 14 March 2023

www.theyworkforyou.com

AUKUS Defence Partnership
– in the House of Commons at 3:09 pm on 14th March 2023.

 

[Muck Spreader]

Seems to be basically the next submarine design to replace the Astute class ones currently in UK service will now be a joint project?
Apparently only the second time the US has agreed to share nuclear Sub tech since the 1958 UK-US Agreement.

AUKUS Defence Partnership

– in the House of Commons at 3:09 pm 14 March 2023

www.theyworkforyou.com

AUKUS Defence Partnership
– in the House of Commons at 3:09 pm on 14th March 2023.

I see unsurprisingly that the Australian submarines are in fact to be built in South Australia not the UK. Presumably lots of Aussies will be drafted into Barrow to learn how do you build a nuclear sub.

 

[nivilla1982]

Canada hopes to join Aukus defence pact, says report

Ottawa ‘highly interested’ in joining group amid fears country could be shut out of intelligence and tech sharing

www.theguardian.com

 

[BrianV]

I see unsurprisingly that the Australian submarines are in fact to be built in South Australia not the UK. Presumably lots of Aussies will be drafted into Barrow to learn how do you build a nuclear sub.

America desperate for military support if it goes to war with China using the Taiwanese soldiers.

 

[nivilla1982]

Japan and South Korea should be invited to join Aukus, UK parliamentary committee says

Influential UK foreign affairs select committee recommends Japan and South Korea join the security partnership to develop critical technology

www.theguardian.com

 

[ollie989898]

Japan and South Korea should be invited to join Aukus, UK parliamentary committee says

Influential UK foreign affairs select committee recommends Japan and South Korea join the security partnership to develop critical technology

www.theguardian.com

China won't like that, not one bit. Makes logical sense though.

In a similar vein, it suddenly makes sense why the UK insisted on V/STOL aircraft for the navy- they will be able to operate with anyone's helicopter carriers of which Australia, America, Korea and Japan have a number.

 

[ollie989898]

I see unsurprisingly that the Australian submarines are in fact to be built in South Australia not the UK. Presumably lots of Aussies will be drafted into Barrow to learn how do you build a nuclear sub.

UK doesn't have the shipyard capacity to build them I wouldn't think.

 

[nivilla1982]

The Japanese have two "helicopter destroyers". Which actually more resemble aircraft carriers. Officially they are helicopter assault ships but Japs doing work on them to take F35s etc.

 

[nivilla1982]

UK doesn't have the shipyard capacity to build them I wouldn't think.

Still building Asute class aren't we? Then presumably the "Dreadnought" class?

 

[ollie989898]

The Japanese have two "helicopter destroyers". Which actually more resemble aircraft carriers. Officially they are helicopter assault ships but Japs doing work on them to take F35s etc.

This will all allow interoperability. Would not be surprised to see more F35 sales in future. All of course to counter China.

 

[ollie989898]

Still building Asute class aren't we? Then presumably the "Dreadnought" class?

Yes, but the lead times for this stuff is years in the making and planning.

If you suddenly went to Barrow and asked them to build 4 Australian subs they wouldn't be able to accept because their build plan is already full- to add 4 others (and of an as-yet non-finalised design) would mean delaying the new Dreadnoughts. If you wanted them to suddenly expand their build capacity it would cost a lot more money and time, and then at the end of it they are still committed to delivering the UK boats at the same rate so they would have to expand and then contract (making people redundant?) back to their original plan.

This point was sort of made in a defence piece I read based on the plans for the boats to be built in America. Even though they have a much larger fleet the piece outlined that they faced the same issue- no space in their build schedule. If South Korea and Japan suddenly put in orders, it would make it more plausible that one or other or even both UK and USA would expand their manufacturing bases to accommodate the new orders.

Things like the pressure vessels and the steel for the hulls can't be churned out very fast all. They are churned out in a steady and methodical pace at one per X months/years because of the quality and level of inspections needed. Its the nuclear industry, after all.

 

[Bongodog]

Yes, but the lead times for this stuff is years in the making and planning.

If you suddenly went to Barrow and asked them to build 4 Australian subs they wouldn't be able to accept because their build plan is already full- to add 4 others (and of an as-yet non-finalised design) would mean delaying the new Dreadnoughts. If you wanted them to suddenly expand their build capacity it would cost a lot more money and time, and then at the end of it they are still committed to delivering the UK boats at the same rate so they would have to expand and then contract (making people redundant?) back to their original plan.

This point was sort of made in a defence piece I read based on the plans for the boats to be built in America. Even though they have a much larger fleet the piece outlined that they faced the same issue- no space in their build schedule. If South Korea and Japan suddenly put in orders, it would make it more plausible that one or other or even both UK and USA would expand their manufacturing bases to accommodate the new orders.

Things like the pressure vessels and the steel for the hulls can't be churned out very fast all. They are churned out in a steady and methodical pace at one per X months/years because of the quality and level of inspections needed. Its the nuclear industry, after all.

As you say nuclear sub manufacture is planned decades ahead, BAE systems are expanding both the buildings and workforce at Barrow, but this will only produce additional subs in 10 years time or more. Also as each generation is more complex, the build time goes up.

 

[nivilla1982]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1777390774264447376

 

[BrianV]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1777390774264447376

Bullocks it's simply cover for American stupidity once again that you can bet making the UK poorer.

 

[Muck Spreader]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1777390774264447376

‘Poison portal’: US and UK could send nuclear waste to Australia under Aukus, inquiry told

Labor describes claims as ‘fear-mongering’ and says government would not accept waste from other nations

www.theguardian.com

 

[ollie989898]

Adding Japan, South Korea and Thailand to the list of people with submarines is no bad thing as it will help rein the Chinese in.