Used backhoe fitting

[Mr Alan]

Hello. I'm new to this forum, and to tractors in general, but we have just purchased over 200 acres of land in Spain and will need a tractor for various tasks. I have bought a 1985 Case 585. It's in good condition but doesn't have a back actor. I'm a bit lost as to how to source a used backhoe for this tractor, and understand if hardware from other brands will work. I don't mind doing a bit of fabrication, some welding and bracket making etc. but I'm really looking for some guidance on how to minimise the pain of making a bad decision! Thank you for your help.

 

[le bon paysan]

Most diggers for the back of a tractor are standard 3 point hitch. Some work off the tractor hydraulics, some off a self contained hydraulic system, the choice is yours. 1 about 750/800 KGS in weight is correct size for that tractor. You'll need about 3 buckets, 30cm, 60 cm and a ditching bucket approx 1 metre, also good for grading.
Search agriaffaires, in English rear diggers or French retro pelle in Spanish ?

 

[nick...]

A digger attached to rear of tractor will be very poor.hire a tracked excavator for your needs.a 2 ton digger woukd outperform something attached to a tractor
Nick...

 

[Lincsman]

Buy a purpose built backhoe loader.

 

[Mr Alan]

Thank you for your comments, especially le bon paysan. A three point hitch mounted unit would certainly make things easier. I had read that chassis mount is preferable, especially for a large unit. I'd prefer to use the tractor's hydraulics if possible. Since I have them it seems sensible to use them instead of a second, parallel pump etc.

Thanks Nick but I'm committed to using the tractor, for various ongoing tasks. Rental is not an option. I agree, of course, that a tracked excavator is a better solution for this specific application.

Attached photo...

 

[Mr Alan]

Buy a purpose built backhoe loader.

By "purpose built" do you mean chassis mount? And that goes back to the original question, if I go with chassis mount does it need to be a Case rear actor, specific to this model? Happy to do some fabrication to make it fit. A chassis mount should extend to the front of the machine for best - is that correct?

 

[milkloss]

If
You’re going to find yourself a big unit to go on there then I suspect you will need an external pump. We mount an old foster on a 956 using the tractor hydraulics and it’s just about ok for the odd soft ditch or clearing the end of under gateway pipes out but that’s about it. The bonus is it’s quick to move from little jobs rather than tracking a little Noddy scratcher for hours.

 

[Lincsman]

By "purpose built" do you mean chassis mount? And that goes back to the original question, if I go with chassis mount does it need to be a Case rear actor, specific to this model? Happy to do some fabrication to make it fit. A chassis mount should extend to the front of the machine for best - is that correct?

No, I mean go buy another machine.. see JCB 3cx or preferably similar, it will come with pallet forks and a loader as bonus!

 

[startinghandle]

Can you send close up photos of
Drawbar assembly as I have not seen that type before
Also the loader looks to be heavy duty can you send photos
You need to get this right first time
I don't think the tractor hydraulics will
Be sufficient

 

[nick...]

I’m sure you would find plenty of old McConnell or foster diggers if you advertised on here for one.
nick...

 

[Courier]

Beware a 3 point linkage fitted backhoe and a cab frame - Even experienced folk have been crushed when using these ....

IMPORTANT SAFETY VIDEO IF USING THIS WITH A CABBED TRACTOR -----

 

[Wisconsonian]

What Nick and Lincsman are saying is a three point backhoe run off the tractor hydraulics was a poor solution in the 60's, and even less acceptable today, with increased expectations, and reduced tolerance for safety issues and hard work.

A light duty 3pt backhoe is not going to lift much, if it did it would rock your tractor so much it would be unusable. If you run it off the tractor hydraulics it will be weak and slow. Don't be afraid of a pto powered pump, there's a lot more power available at the pto than through an old tractor hydraulics.

You say you're new to this forum, tractors in general, and just bought land, you can take the advice or pick what advice you like best, won't hurt me any. I wouldn't think of anything that's not 3pt, or something the seller is willing to mount and show you how. Really, I'd get used to the tractor and loader for a couple months and then figure out if you need a backhoe, and if you can do what you want with a small one, or rent or buy a more capable machine.

 

[Mr Alan]

Can you send close up photos of
Drawbar assembly as I have not seen that type before
Also the loader looks to be heavy duty can you send photos
You need to get this right first time
I don't think the tractor hydraulics will
Be sufficient

Here are closeup photos. I agree about getting it right first time! I'm hoping not to make an expensive mistake (other than not to have bought a 3CX, not the first time I've heard this).

If it makes a difference, these are some of the uses the tractor will be put to. You can see that a tracked excavator is not an alternative for many of these, even if it is better at digging.

Trenching, hole digging, lifting (RSJs etc.), moving full IBCs on pallets, ploughing, rock picking, towing, moving trees (grapple), brush cutting, grading, mowing. It will be our Swiss Army knife for all types of work.

Thanks all for your inputs, much appreciated.

 

[Mr Alan]

What Nick and Lincsman are saying is a three point backhoe run off the tractor hydraulics was a poor solution in the 60's, and even less acceptable today, with increased expectations, and reduced tolerance for safety issues and hard work.

A light duty 3pt backhoe is not going to lift much, if it did it would rock your tractor so much it would be unusable. If you run it off the tractor hydraulics it will be weak and slow. Don't be afraid of a pto powered pump, there's a lot more power available at the pto than through an old tractor hydraulics.

You say you're new to this forum, tractors in general, and just bought land, you can take the advice or pick what advice you like best, won't hurt me any. I wouldn't think of anything that's not 3pt, or something the seller is willing to mount and show you how. Really, I'd get used to the tractor and loader for a couple months and then figure out if you need a backhoe, and if you can do what you want with a small one, or rent or buy a more capable machine.

I know that I will need a backhoe - I'm intending to bury multiple IBCs in the ground, and lay pipework in trenches - at least 1.5 miles of pipe. I'll also be digging a pool at some point. I spent some time looking at smaller tractors before going with the 585. The reality is that the ground is hard, dry and rocky (see photo). It'll be tough on equipment. I'm wanting a back actor capable of doing some heavy work. That seems to rule out a 3pt hitch mount. And that means I'm back to working out what I can and can't mount on chassis hardware I fabricate myself.

Thank you for your (and others) input on the separate pump. And of course I'd consider a PTO driven pump. I'm open to all advice from those who know more than I do.

 

[nick...]

There is no way a tractor mounted backhoe like a McConnell will lift an ibc container full which will be in the region of 1000kg
nick...

 

[Mr Alan]

There is no way a tractor mounted backhoe like a McConnell will lift an ibc container full which will be in the region of 1000kg
nick...

No, forks on the front loader.

 

[PostHarvest]

Years ago, I worked for IH in their Doncaster works. They got an order from the Army for a number of Drott's, fitted with backhoes. I don't know why they didn't use their own IH backhoe, but they adapted JCB backhoes to fit onto the Drott's. It took several design engineers and specialist (very skilled) fabricators and fitters from the Product Development workshop to make everything work - It was quite a challenge and took weeks to get everything right. Don't think they made any profit on that contract.

The other issue is that most purpose built backhoe loaders have a full chassis. The cast iron rear axle housings on your 585 were never designed to take that level of load.

 

[startinghandle]

You will need to remove hitch before using pto and fit correct drawbar if you are using trailer
The loader is a long way forward and by the time 1000kg is lifted on pallet tines it will be very heavy on tractor

 

[Mr Alan]

Years ago, I worked for IH in their Doncaster works. They got an order from the Army for a number of Drott's, fitted with backhoes. I don't know why they didn't use their own IH backhoe, but they adapted JCB backhoes to fit onto the Drott's. It took several design engineers and specialist (very skilled) fabricators and fitters from the Product Development workshop to make everything work - It was quite a challenge and took weeks to get everything right. Don't think they made any profit on that contract.

I am not a "very skilled" fabricator so I'll keep this story in mind before committing to making my own subframe.

From what I've read, a 3pt mounted backhoe on a subcompact/compact is a bad idea but the 585 is a mid size machine so perhaps acceptable? Aside from the crushing danger, which I think can be mitigated, any views on the efficacy of 3pt mounted backhoes? Wisconsonian says he wouldn't consider anything that wasn't 3pt mounted.

 

[Mr Alan]

You will need to remove hitch before using pto and fit correct drawbar if you are using trailer
The loader is a long way forward and by the time 1000kg is lifted on pallet tines it will be very heavy on tractor

I wouldn't be moving 1000kg very far - onto and off a pick-up or trailer only. I appreciate that this is testing the limits.