Very Nearly a Life Lesson

[deleted user 436632456]

One of my clients was recently recruiting tractor drivers, I was helping with interviews and references.

There was this one guy who stood out above the rest, great qualifications, CV and references, so they gave him a one week trial

He was relocating area with his wife and 2 kids, so was doing the one week trial and then was due to move in a couple of weeks and start full time if successful.

During the one week trial another member of staff was taking a few snapchats etc and out of the blue got this random message from someone from the other side of the country asking "What is ## doing working for you?" "Do you know who he is?"

Turns out... he has quite a long conviction sheet of stalking, harassment and is also a registered sex offender.

And the wife and 2 kids don't exist.

What actually scares me is that this guy had the potential to be out with the silage gang and farmers like they do over here is throw their children in the cabs with the silage gang.

So from now on.. I will be insisting that background checks for all potential new employees are carried out, No If's, No Buts, No more thinking that everybody in Agri is part of the good old boys club.

 

[Drillman]

How did he get as far as a weeks trial period

assume his references were checked ?

 

[deleted user 436632456]

How did he get as far as a weeks trial period

assume his references were checked ?

He got 2 fantastic references.. either they didn't know or just turned a blind eye to it.

 

[Drillman]

He got 2 fantastic references.. either they didn't know or just turned a blind eye to it.

Sometimes good references get given out to help get rid of a problem......

 

[deleted user 837354]

There is another side to this mind. If no one is ever prepared to employ anyone who has committed a crime, what is the long term solution to them forever being a drain on society because that is basically what will happen if they can't ever do any work.

On this forum there is often much talk about unmentionables who won't work and expect the state to pay for their existence. Here you have a guy who no one will allow to work? What is the answer?

Many of these people have in fact been failed by society at some point in the past.

 

[teslacoils]

So, would anyone employ an ex offender if their good references checked out and they were a good worker?

Perhaps they have done their time a while back. Good references, decent CV, presumably was fine on the weeks trial?

 

[PSQ]

Many years ago my dad got chatting to a farmer from ‘the south’ at a farming function, and the guy mentioned that his neighbouring estate had just employed a “nice chap” as a farm manager from “up your way” (the Borders).
Dad looked him in the eye and told him to warn his neighbour, that this ‘manager’ had wilfully defrauded and bankrupted his previous employers and taken the family for every penny, with them losing their home and estate in the process.

I’ve just googled his name (and alias) and he’s now got a record as long as your arm, and had several lengthy stays in prison.
@Breakthru will know who I mean...

And no, knowing the devastation it’s caused to the defrauded family, I wouldn’t give him or any one else convicted of a serious offence a 2nd chance.

 

[Breakthru]

Absolutely. He nailed his father in law in the same movement. I advised the brother in law to break into the grain store over the weekend and recover their grain. Unfortunately he didn't although a merchant did. Cost about £250000 I think to them alone.

 

[deleted user 436632456]

There is another side to this mind. If no one is ever prepared to employ anyone who has committed a crime, what is the long term solution to them forever being a drain on society because that is basically what will happen if they can't ever do any work.

On this forum there is often much talk about unmentionables who won't work and expect the state to pay for their existence. Here you have a guy who no one will allow to work? What is the answer?

Many of these people have in fact been failed by society at some point in the past.

I do get that there is people maybe deserve and need a second chance from society but..
When you fail to disclose any of your convictions and make up a fake wife and kids.. We weren't the ones to give him a second chance or in actually fact I think it would have been his 19 chance. 18 convictions for harassment, stalking and sex offences and has also been tried for child sex offences but never convicted.

If he had told you his convictions, would you employ him?

 

[deleted user 436632456]

So, would anyone employ an ex offender if their good references checked out and they were a good worker?

Perhaps they have done their time a while back. Good references, decent CV, presumably was fine on the weeks trial?

By all reports he had a fantastic trial week and would have made a great addition to the firm but its his background that isn't good at all

 

[teslacoils]

By all reports he had a fantastic trial week and would have made a great addition to the firm but its his background that isn't good at all

Suppose it depends how much time has elapsed since the crime.

 

[toquark]

Sometimes good references get given out to help get rid of a problem......

In my experience of writing and reading references, its what's not said that matters.

 

[deleted user 837354]

I do get that there is people maybe deserve and need a second chance from society but..
When you fail to disclose any of your convictions and make up a fake wife and kids.. We weren't the ones to give him a second chance or in actually fact I think it would have been his 19 chance. 18 convictions for harassment, stalking and sex offences and has also been tried for child sex offences but never convicted.

If he had told you his convictions, would you employ him?

In answer to your first paragraph, I am not sure if a person legally has to declare any convictions, I would seek guidance on that as obliging people to declare them may be illegal itself under current employment law, I have no idea. It is understandable someone would be ashamed of any past convictions and may try to conceal them. Is this automatically suspicious though? Hard to say.

Secondly, as I understand it, sex offences comprise a vast array of criminal acts. I believe a 15 year old who sends an explicit picture of themselves to another 15 year old has committed a sex offence but this is rather different to someone who has sexually assaulted 10 people- same offence but clearly incomparable crimes. It is worth noting that not all sex offenders are linked to crimes perpetrated against children but I accept many will be.

As to your last question, it would depend on the nature of the business, the environment and the potential risks. Many businesses employ people who have done their time and been released from prison or similar establishments. I would imagine there are mechanisms in place where this is done. I honestly cannot tell you one way or the other.

 

[Pieces_of_Eight]

I know someone who has a completely fabricated CV, but they keep getting job offers because they can talk the talk in an interview. Jobs never seem to last though.

Really winds me up when other people have worked hard for years to get genuine qualifications.

I have no sympathy for employers who can't be bothered to check references or even to ask for copies of qualification certificates.

 

[Hooby Farmer]

I had a chap work for me a few years ago, seemed decent guy. Had good manners, good time keeping not the brightest a bit slow but tried very hard. He had a relationship break down with his partner and moved out of the family home. He moved to the neighbouring town and got the train to work every morning and I picked him up or he walked the mile from the station to the yard. This went on for a month or so. Then one Saturday even I got a notification on FB with a message saying do I know anyone in this video. He was caught on one of those paedophile hunter FB pages trying get sex from a 15 year old. I felt sick, would liked to.have given him the benefit of the doubt but there's no smoke without fire. I never seen him again after that Friday when he finished for the weekend, he never collected the weeks wages, phone off etc. When I employed his replacement the very first question I asked was are you a paedo, any sex crime convictions etc.

 

[deleted user 436632456]

In answer to your first paragraph, I am not sure if a person legally has to declare any convictions, I would seek guidance on that as obliging people to declare them may be illegal itself under current employment law, I have no idea. It is understandable someone would be ashamed of any past convictions and may try to conceal them. Is this automatically suspicious though? Hard to say.

Secondly, as I understand it, sex offences comprise a vast array of criminal acts. I believe a 15 year old who sends an explicit picture of themselves to another 15 year old has committed a sex offence but this is rather different to someone who has sexually assaulted 10 people- same offence but clearly incomparable crimes. It is worth noting that not all sex offenders are linked to crimes perpetrated against children but I accept many will be.

As to your last question, it would depend on the nature of the business, the environment and the potential risks. Many businesses employ people who have done their time and been released from prison or similar establishments. I would imagine there are mechanisms in place where this is done. I honestly cannot tell you one way or the other.

I know someone who was caught 2x using the outside of a pub as a urinal, mix an over zealous policeman and a bit of talking when he should be listening, he ended up on the sex offenders register. I would never associate him with the likes of a child sex offender.

This guy would have been part of a silage gang where over here it is very common for the farmers son's/daughters/nephews/nieces/neighbours children to jump in the tractor with them.. I and the employer just couldn't let that happen with someone who has been tried for child sex offences.

 

[Scholsey]

Watch c4 this evening, police undercover: paedo hunters.

No matter how ‘reformed’ those blokes could be I wouldn’t want them within 50 miles of my children.

Working on a farm is very different to working in a supermarket, on a site etc, it’s very easy to become ‘one of the family’ especially on a family farm, stealing a car or a pi55ed up fight at a YFC is one thing, stalking, raping, child sex abuse is a whole different ball game!

 

[Pieces_of_Eight]

When I employed his replacement the very first question I asked was are you a paedo, any sex crime convictions etc.

How easy is it for a prospective employee to provide a CRB/DBS check at the point of interview?

 

[teslacoils]

How easy is it for a prospective employee to provide a CRB/DBS check at the point of interview?

Difficult. yuo csnt get a dbs check done for any old job. And rightly so. That's the Nexus of our justice system - that we isolate and rehabilitate.

 

[Johnnyboxer]

How easy is it for a prospective employee to provide a CRB/DBS check at the point of interview?

Should any farmer employer get a CRB and DBS check done before engaging a new employee?

Mandatory in a lot of professions like local council/nhs/ retail etc

Farmers should be checking really, especially as the farm is also their home and family space

Are farmers doing checks ?