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We don't chop firewood, but we bind it

renewablejohn

Member
Location
lancs
They explode because the vapour pressure exceeds the capacity of the boiler, with the energy coming from an outside source. There is certainly no energy generated from the steam boiling, and it actually consumes energy in doing so.


Given my degree majored in chemistry and was from an institution founded by the inventor of the steam engine, I’d like to think I know what I’m writing about.
Well I would not let you loose anywhere near my steam engines.
 

Highland Mule

Member
Livestock Farmer
Dont think you would get a job at BMW either with logic like that.


Sigh. The water injection system takes energy out of the system, and in the process cools the engine and hence allows it to run at a higher tune/ more efficiently. The water does not provide any energy, but takes it away.
 

renewablejohn

Member
Location
lancs
Sigh. The water injection system takes energy out of the system, and in the process cools the engine and hence allows it to run at a higher tune/ more efficiently. The water does not provide any energy, but takes it away.
Only given as an example of the potential of water injection but in the case of charcoal slurry the benefits are iin flash steam.
 

Highland Mule

Member
Livestock Farmer
Only given as an example of the potential of water injection but in the case of charcoal slurry the benefits are iin flash steam.

John, steam doesn't burn. It's already in its lowest energy state: (in simple terms) the oxygen and hydrogen atoms released the potential when they formed the water molecule. It might help to keep the reaction under control by adsorbing excess energy, the flashing to steam might even help to disperse the carbon in the charcoal, but it certainly doesn't add any extra joules, and will actually take some away by virtue of being hotter when it leaves than when it came in.

Don't just take my word for it though, find any high school or above chemistry student and ask them.
 

renewablejohn

Member
Location
lancs
John, steam doesn't burn. It's already in its lowest energy state: (in simple terms) the oxygen and hydrogen atoms released the potential when they formed the water molecule. It might help to keep the reaction under control by adsorbing excess energy, the flashing to steam might even help to disperse the carbon in the charcoal, but it certainly doesn't add any extra joules, and will actually take some away by virtue of being hotter when it leaves than when it came in.

Don't just take my word for it though, find any high school or above chemistry student and ask them.
Seems your the one who needs to go to high school. Thimgs dont need to burn to produce energy. I will stick with the chemistry of charcoal and water being used in a diesel engine to produce electric.
 

Highland Mule

Member
Livestock Farmer
Seems your the one who needs to go to high school. Thimgs dont need to burn to produce energy. I will stick with the chemistry of charcoal and water being used in a diesel engine to produce electric.

That what I wrote earlier ffs. In very simple terms, the charcoal burns and gives energy, and the water boils and takes some away, but facilitates the charcoal reaction in the process. Don’t even try to claim you understand chemistry though and suggest that water reacts to release any energy, because you obviously don’t and it doesn’t.

And with that, I’m going to leave you to embarrass yourself alone - you don’t need any help from me.
 

renewablejohn

Member
Location
lancs
That what I wrote earlier ffs. In very simple terms, the charcoal burns and gives energy, and the water boils and takes some away, but facilitates the charcoal reaction in the process. Don’t even try to claim you understand chemistry though and suggest that water reacts to release any energy, because you obviously don’t and it doesn’t.

And with that, I’m going to leave you to embarrass yourself alone - you don’t need any help from me.
Fimally you admit the steam cycle exists. Now we just need the admission that its the expansion of the water that makes the diesel engine turn or are you saying the diesel engine would turn on pure charcoal.
 

Highland Mule

Member
Livestock Farmer
Fimally you admit the steam cycle exists. Now we just need the admission that its the expansion of the water that makes the diesel engine turn or are you saying the diesel engine would turn on pure charcoal.

I’ll try once more, and then someone else can try to teach you basic chemistry. The water/ steam is the transfer medium, and whilst steam generation is indeed the way that the heat from the charcoal is used to make work, the water does not burn, does not transform into hydrogen and oxygen and does not undergo any chemical transformation. In fact, it actually takes energy away from the overall process in doing that job.

So please stop trying to pretend that the water is a source of energy as nothing could be further from the truth.
 

renewablejohn

Member
Location
lancs
I’ll try once more, and then someone else can try to teach you basic chemistry. The water/ steam is the transfer medium, and whilst steam generation is indeed the way that the heat from the charcoal is used to make work, the water does not burn, does not transform into hydrogen and oxygen and does not undergo any chemical transformation. In fact, it actually takes energy away from the overall process in doing that job.

So please stop trying to pretend that the water is a source of energy as nothing could be further from the truth.
Maybe a spell back at Uni will do you good. In particular the advances in the knowledge of gas shift reactions and there use in modern coal and biomass plants for producing synthetic gases. Anyway I have already wasted to much of my time I will just have to agree to disagree.
 

Highland Mule

Member
Livestock Farmer
Maybe a spell back at Uni will do you good. In particular the advances in the knowledge of gas shift reactions and there use in modern coal and biomass plants for producing synthetic gases. Anyway I have already wasted to much of my time I will just have to agree to disagree.

I’ll go back to uni (PhD ?) when you learn schoolboy chemistry. Until then, you keep living in your world of make believe and misunderstanding.
 

New Puritan

Member
Location
East Sussex
Argh.

@renewablejohn - where do you think the energy is coming from in your charcoal slurry?

At the beginning of this tiresome interlude on an already bizarre thread I did say "useful energy" in respect of water. If you want to make hydrogen from water, which can then be used as a fuel, you will need to put some energy in. That's how an electrolyser works. There's no such thing as a free lunch.
 

How is your SFI 24 application progressing?

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Webinar: Expanded Sustainable Farming Incentive offer 2024 -26th Sept

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On Thursday 26th September, we’re holding a webinar for farmers to go through the guidance, actions and detail for the expanded Sustainable Farming Incentive (SFI) offer. This was planned for end of May, but had to be delayed due to the general election. We apologise about that.

Farming and Countryside Programme Director, Janet Hughes will be joined by policy leads working on SFI, and colleagues from the Rural Payment Agency and Catchment Sensitive Farming.

This webinar will be...
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