Two thirds support Scottish-style right to roam law in England

Formatted · Jul 6, 2023

"After the Dartmoor decision, the Labour Party promised to pass a similar right to walk and camp across England and Wales to ensure land is not off-limits."

The Times & The Sunday Times

News and opinion from The Times & The Sunday Times

www.thetimes.co.uk

Anyone thinking of voting Labour this election needs their head seen to.

essexpete · Jul 6, 2023

If this goes ahead, if areas on a holding are fenced will it mean creating/adding styles, kissing gates etc?

Will it give folk the right to walk through a yard to gain access to a wider area?

Farmer_Joe · Jul 6, 2023

Can I go camp in peoples gardens, where do they define the difference?

Alias · Jul 6, 2023

essexpete said:
If this goes ahead, if areas on a holding are fenced will it mean creating/adding styles, kissing gates etc?

Will it give folk the right to walk through a yard to gain access to a wider area?

We have a piece of walled moor which is on the map as open access now, but there are no stiles or footpaths leading onto it, so no one is technically allowed on to it, and we are not obligaged to put a stile in. It actually makes no difference because they just climb over the walls and go where they like, and just give me grief if I say anything

Surface Tension · Jul 6, 2023

essexpete said:
If this goes ahead, if areas on a holding are fenced will it mean creating/adding styles, kissing gates etc?

Will it give folk the right to walk through a yard to gain access to a wider area?

Not the case in Scotland, no access through areas with buildings. Not that necessarily stops them trying but you can turn them back and advise they read the access code

Surface Tension · Jul 6, 2023

Farmer_Joe said:
Can I go camp in peoples gardens, where do they define the difference?

No camping or access through gardens. Never seen anyone try to camp but a few still wander through our cottage garden so are advised of the access code. I think it is the case that you could warn them on the first occasion if they get caught again it would be considered trespass.

Nithsdale · Jul 6, 2023

Formatted said:
"After the Dartmoor decision, the Labour Party promised to pass a similar right to walk and camp across England and Wales to ensure land is not off-limits."

The Times & The Sunday Times

News and opinion from The Times & The Sunday Times

www.thetimes.co.uk

Anyone thinking of voting Labour this election needs their head seen to.

Living in Scotland I'd personally say our laws on accessing the countryside are a damn sight better than those of England & Wales.

We don't have the issues you lot do down south - and we can tell people to fvck off out of our fields.
You have to have a bloody good reason to be anywhere up here, it isn't a free for all

Bobby Spray · Jul 6, 2023

I'm having a nightmare about this right now. The local council have an access officer who has told us that we must replace our locked five bar gate (with Stile) with a bridle gate to allow people and horse riders access to a path that runs through the farm. The path is owned by the farm but it's a ROW. The problem is the chavs from the local village will use the path as a place to race their motorbikes once the Bridle gate is installed. When I pointed out to the council access officer that this would likely happen and someone would be injured - his answer was - "I hope that you’re insured"!

BRB John · Jul 6, 2023

I think Scottish freedom to roam is a hell of alot better than the English ROW system.
But if England is getting right to roam they have to give up their right of way ballocks.
And then you can remove all the paths and won't have to make any special effort to accommodate anyone else.
Thankfully I'm in the North East with feck all people so the worse we get is a few dog walkers after silage and after the harvest otherwise their not allowed in fields with cattle or a growing crop.

toquark · Jul 6, 2023

Right to roam isn't that bad to be honest, though we don't have the same population pressure as those in the South do. Because there are no "rights of way" as such, we are perfectly entitled to tell people wandering through fields to bugger off. The outdoor access code is actually quite restrictive when you read it.

Nithsdale · Jul 6, 2023

Bobby Spray said:
I'm having a nightmare about this right now. The local council have an access officer who has told us that we must replace our locked five bar gate (with Stile) with a bridle gate to allow people and horse riders access to a path that runs through the farm. The path is owned by the farm but it's a ROW. The problem is the chavs from the local village will use the path as a place to race their motorbikes once the Bridle gate is installed. When I pointed out to the council access officer that this would likely happen and someone would be injured - his answer was - "I hope that you’re insured"!

If the path is on a map you have to allow access - that's in Scots law.

It is flat out illegal to access land with a vehicle in Scotland without permission (hence there is no such thing as 'greenlaning' in Scotland)

Nithsdale · Jul 6, 2023

BRB John said:
I think Scottish freedom to roam is a hell of alot better than the English ROW system.
But if England is getting right to roam they have to give up their right of way ballocks.
And then you can remove all the paths and won't have to make any special effort to accommodate anyone else.
Thankfully I'm in the North East with feck all people so the worse we get is a few dog walkers after silage and after the harvest otherwise their not allowed in fields with cattle or a growing crop.

Aye, I don't think Freedom to Roam and Right of Way laws can co-exist, it would get the law into a right muddle.

Farmer_Joe · Jul 6, 2023

Bobby Spray said:
I'm having a nightmare about this right now. The local council have an access officer who has told us that we must replace our locked five bar gate (with Stile) with a bridle gate to allow people and horse riders access to a path that runs through the farm. The path is owned by the farm but it's a ROW. The problem is the chavs from the local village will use the path as a place to race their motorbikes once the Bridle gate is installed. When I pointed out to the council access officer that this would likely happen and someone would be injured - his answer was - "I hope that you’re insured"!

Just tell him you will put a combination lock on with your number (manned 24 hrs) and if any horse rider rings you will give them the code, your technically not blocking it as you are allowing those who have a right to pass, I’m sure any genuine rider would be happy with that

Vader · Jul 6, 2023

toquark said:
Right to roam isn't that bad to be honest, though we don't have the same population pressure as those in the South do. Because there are no "rights of way" as such, we are perfectly entitled to tell people wandering through fields to bugger off. The outdoor access code is actually quite restrictive when you read it.

Problem is most people wont read it and will just wander.
I have to go to people wandering in crops a lot now.
Imagine if everyone thinks they can roam where they want.

Exfarmer · Jul 6, 2023

population density England = approx 50 people per hectare
population density scotland = approx 7
a slight difference

BRB John · Jul 6, 2023

Exfarmer said:
population density England = approx 50 people per hectare
population density scotland = approx 7
a slight difference

Is it really as high as that? In Scotland I mean?
Edit just checked 7,791,000ha for 5.43 million people so just over 1.4Ha each

toquark · Jul 6, 2023

BRB John said:
Is it really as high as that? In Scotland I mean?

its 70 per km2 in Scotland and 434 per km2 in England

toquark · Jul 6, 2023

Vader said:
Problem is most people wont read it and will just wander.
I have to go to people wandering in crops a lot now.
Imagine if everyone thinks they can roam where they want.

Yeah, but I suppose what it does is move a lot of the onus from the landowner to the member of public. Its in their interest to read and understand it, but if they don't and contravene it, you are perfectly entitled to get them gone the law is on your side and on the whole you will be supported if the police are ever involved. There are now major fines applicable for dog owners who let their dogs worry livestock.

Like I say, on the whole, it works here, but we don't have millions of people living on the doorstep like you do.

Exfarmer · Jul 6, 2023

BRB John said:
Is it really as high as that? In Scotland I mean?
Edit just checked 7,791,000ha for 5.43 million people so just over 1.4Ha each

Bugger got my decimal point wrong, school boy error

Hilly · Jul 6, 2023

The biggest problem with right to roam in scotland is the name “ Right to roam “ its not really and gives false impression.

Two thirds support Scottish-style right to roam law in England

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Up to 25%

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100% I’ve had enough of farming!

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