Calves, Pneumonia and BVD

[SamMan]

Hi all, new here so please be gentle.

We have about 150 weaned calves - 3-6months old, 7 pens - that in the last week/10 days coughing a bit more and finding an increasing number to treat each morning.

Decided to go through the lot of them and on the advice of the vet treat:
Anything looking ok, but with a slight temp (to 39.5) with Metacam;
Anything looking not so good with a higher temp with Florfenical and Metacam.
I was given a more complex scoring chart based on temp, coughing, eyes, ears, demeanor

A very large percentage were treated with something.
Dead animal post mortem suggests both bacterial and viral pneumonia but vet was surprised said animal died. Gone off to lab for tests
Lost another since.

Weather has been damp and grey, but it has been for months now.
Anybody seeing an increase in pneumonia cases?

Calves come from different sources - which I know is not ideal.
The subject of BVD keeps being brought up by the vets. A handful come in with BVD tags but doing the remainder is not something we do.

What are peoples thoughts on BVD?
Statistics and research is something the vets don't have.

Growth rates are reasonable but got a niggling feeling it is something more sinister. Maybe a PI about?

Does anyone tag? And where do they get tags/test? Cost?
How common are Pi's?

Sorry for being long winded.

 

[milkloss]

Don't buy in calves but we had a bvd 'storm' a few years back. Bvd is much like a flu virus if an animal gets a transient infection and their immune system will be low as their body is challenged. We had scours quite bad in half a dozen, really herd to cure as well, some pneumonia and general unthriftiness of the whole years calves as well as a few unexplained deaths. Nearly every calf proven to be a PI died before it was one year old.

it might pay to bvd test the lot of them either by test tag twice or blood test for both antigen and antibody. (Antigen and antibody means TI, just antigen is likely to mean a PI)

 

[bazza3034]

Treat with a cheap lungworm pouron first it's not bvd just stress brings on the coughing and be good to them feed that antibiotic mix in the meal alot less stress than jagging at them and getting them worked up treat the very sick ones with antibiotic and make sure they have plenty of air make sure the stale air is moving out of the shed then treat again in a months time with pour on

 

[tr250]

Probably not what you want to hear but In my opinion it’s not worth spending on blood testing or tag and testing if your buying in calves as the next bunch you buy will just un-do anything you’ve done. Are they vaccinated with rispoval 4 or similar?You might be un lucky to buy in a pi which will never do and most probably die as well as spread the virus but im presuming your not breeding which could lead to an epidemic and bad conception rates abortions etc

 

[SamMan]

Don't buy in calves but we had a bvd 'storm' a few years back. Bvd is much like a flu virus if an animal gets a transient infection and their immune system will be low as their body is challenged. We had scours quite bad in half a dozen, really herd to cure as well, some pneumonia and general unthriftiness of the whole years calves as well as a few unexplained deaths. Nearly every calf proven to be a PI died before it was one year old.

it might pay to bvd test the lot of them either by test tag twice or blood test for both antigen and antibody. (Antigen and antibody means TI, just antigen is likely to mean a PI)

It was my understanding that bvd would cause a drop in their immune system and a mild outbreak of pneumonia in the barn could then turn into something worse.
A tag and test will tell only me if it is suffering from bvd and not if it is the PI? How could u identify the PI in such a large group?

 

[SamMan]

Treat with a cheap lungworm pouron first it's not bvd just stress brings on the coughing and be good to them feed that antibiotic mix in the meal alot less stress than jagging at them and getting them worked up treat the very sick ones with antibiotic and make sure they have plenty of air make sure the stale air is moving out of the shed then treat again in a months time with pour on

I did wonder if it has coincided with some more misty, still days. They are housed in quite a long shed. But pens either end are suffering just as bad.
Was planning to stock board the dividing gates this year to minimise and slow down any potential pneumonia outbreaks but didn't get the time or opportunity ?

 

[tr250]

It was my understanding that bvd would cause a drop in their immune system and a mild outbreak of pneumonia in the barn could then turn into something worse.
A tag and test will tell only me if it is suffering from bvd and not if it is the PI? How could u identify the PI in such a large group?

No I believe it’s the other way round tag and test will tell you if it’s a pi. Taking blood into a red top tube will tell you if it’s got antibodies

 

[SamMan]

Probably not what you want to hear but In my opinion it’s not worth spending on blood testing or tag and testing if your buying in calves as the next bunch you buy will just un-do anything you’ve done. Are they vaccinated with rispoval 4 or similar?You might be un lucky to buy in a pi which will never do and most probably die as well as spread the virus but im presuming your not breeding which could lead to an epidemic and bad conception rates abortions etc

The vet has been beating the BVD drum for sometime and to tag every arrival. Cant really find any stats or research on bvd numbers. As you said, I really need to do every arrival.
They have an intranasel vac on arrival. I would had thought if a PI was a non-doer and eventually died - wouldn't bvd had died out by now?
Not breeding

 

[puppet]

BVD continues as it infects the next generation before they die

 

[milkloss]

The tag and test only tells you if the virus dna is present. So it could be a pi or a ti. A second tag and test a month later should show any ti as negative as they have beaten the virus, any positives on the second test would be fairly certain to be a PI. The double blood test can show antigen(virus dna) and the antibody (the immune systems reaction to kill the virus). A pi would have the antigen but NOT the antibody to fight it off. A ti would have both present showing that the immune system sees the virus for what it is. The double blood test costs the same as double tags but in one operation.

a lot of the time you can tell the pi calf. Deer like face, rough coat, snotty nose etc but this is by no means reliable. If you are buying in calves then Bvd will always be an issue, no point testing and mixing them up until the results come in as the virus spreads just by walking stock past each other.

a new born calf will take maybe 36 hours to show positive on a test tag if it makes contact with another infected animal soon after birth. A guideline given to me from one of the vaccine manufacturers.

edit to add: you could wait until 4 wks after the last calf might have caught Bvd and then test tag yourself and, assuming they’ve all cleared up their ti infection, you’ll find the pi. But you can’t buy any in in the 4wks and not relocate any from another building or else you’ll have to wait another 4wks and retest the positives resulting from new ti that may occur.
Consult with vet, especially as regards the 4 weeks.

 

[Blaithin]

How long have you had them?

Vaccination should head off BVD although people have their doubts about intranasal ones here. If they’re recent arrivals than shipping fever is most likely.

What are the UK regs in feeding things like auremycin? If it’s turning into a wide issue sometimes broad treatment is what’s needed.

 

[Samcowman]

Definitely worth tag testing them when they come in for the problems it can cause.
Do you buy in privately or through market? You should be able to check the results of the already tested ones on bvd free England website.

 

[Homesy]

test for Salmonella. When I was buying in beef calves, I was plagued by something similar to what you are having. Had a young vet do postmortems and lots of tests for this and that, could n't get to the bottom of it.
I then had an old nearly retired vet, who was just TB testing, do my annual test. We were discussing my problems and he said
" I think it might be Salmonella boy "
He was right. started vaccinating and problems all but disappeared.
Worth checking.
My understanding is that BVD tagging identifies PI s.

 

[Hfd Cattle]

Inject everything on arrival with a good dose of Hexasol is a good start. The weather conditions are very difficult for calf rearing at the moment .
I'm not sure about the BVD issue . I'm a bit suspicious of the vets when the first thing they seem to say if you have a bad calf "it's possibly BVD, we need to get you on a BVD programme "
As previous post salmonella is a suspect .

 

[J 1177]

The weather has been awful for rearing calves recently. What i do (Not saying it's perfect mind) is rispoval intranasal before they come out of the trailer and 6ml of hexasol if they have any sort of temperature.
I keep a thermometer in my pocket and check anything that looks slightly off colour plus it's mate.
I use easy breather blocks too.
I have had to jab more than I normally do this backend, the only difference is the weather.

 

[puppet]

If you bring in calves from various sources you are always going to get spells of problems whether it be BVD, p pneumonia or salmonella.
For BVD you could ask your regular suppliers to tissue tag before buying. Costs £2-3 each but worth it as you can sell them on to breeding farmers without worry of buying a PI.

 

[M-J-G]

Don't buy in calves but we had a bvd 'storm' a few years back. Bvd is much like a flu virus if an animal gets a transient infection and their immune system will be low as their body is challenged. We had scours quite bad in half a dozen, really herd to cure as well, some pneumonia and general unthriftiness of the whole years calves as well as a few unexplained deaths. Nearly every calf proven to be a PI died before it was one year old.

it might pay to bvd test the lot of them either by test tag twice or blood test for both antigen and antibody. (Antigen and antibody means TI, just antigen is likely to mean a PI)

Why did you keep the PI cattle until they died?

 

[mac]

Why did you keep the PI cattle until they died?

Indeed the best and cheapest thing for a PI is a bullet. If you find one get rid of it immediately the best thing u can do for you and your herds future.
Mac

 

[Werzle]

Hi all, new here so please be gentle.

We have about 150 weaned calves - 3-6months old, 7 pens - that in the last week/10 days coughing a bit more and finding an increasing number to treat each morning.

Decided to go through the lot of them and on the advice of the vet treat:
Anything looking ok, but with a slight temp (to 39.5) with Metacam;
Anything looking not so good with a higher temp with Florfenical and Metacam.
I was given a more complex scoring chart based on temp, coughing, eyes, ears, demeanor

A very large percentage were treated with something.
Dead animal post mortem suggests both bacterial and viral pneumonia but vet was surprised said animal died. Gone off to lab for tests
Lost another since.

Weather has been damp and grey, but it has been for months now.
Anybody seeing an increase in pneumonia cases?

Calves come from different sources - which I know is not ideal.
The subject of BVD keeps being brought up by the vets. A handful come in with BVD tags but doing the remainder is not something we do.

What are peoples thoughts on BVD?
Statistics and research is something the vets don't have.

Growth rates are reasonable but got a niggling feeling it is something more sinister. Maybe a PI about?

Does anyone tag? And where do they get tags/test? Cost?
How common are Pi's?

Sorry for being long winded.

Its been a quiet winter for pneumonia around here but one thing i would say is most herds that have bvd vaccinated there cows have seen an improvement in calf health and stronger resistance to disease . Single suckled calves weaned on the day of the sale and stood in market for 6-9hrs must be sods to keep alive.

 

[milkloss]

Why did you keep the PI cattle until they died?

well, that was a bit of a f up really and what @mac says above is true: if you've confirmed an animal is a PI it needs shooting. Simple as that. If you go back (testing my memory here) you'll see I asked what people do with PI's and the responses certainly weren't as clear and plain spoken!

Anyhow, coupled with getting my eyes lasered to buggery due to retinopathy that year, we discovered through test tags that we had a big TI problem and that test tags were pointless as two tests proved every animal as a TI. In the excitement a batch of calves that should have been double tested weren't and hence they grew enough for no one to have the guts to just shoot them and so they stayed on farm. We have no contact with other cattle and we promptly engaged in a vaccination policy for the next crop of calves. Have had no positives on any calves born two years later and dumped testing tags this year and will probably use them this coming year to be sure. Have also had funding to find any PI's through the vets and we did find two animals that were potential replacements coming in, they were sold direct to a dealer who was notified of the issue.

Those two PIs got to 2.5 years old, although they hadn't grown well, looked clean coated, normal stature, one did have new forest eye issues that didn't clear up well. The fact they got to that age and we got on top of bvd shows how effective the vaccine is

conclusion: bad management and lack of balls but we managed to dig our way out.