Copper deficiency

[Cowabunga]

Recently had the farm's soil deeply analysed and found a consistent serious copper deficiency over the whole farm. It seems to me that if the soil is short of copper, that maybe the forage is short as well. In which case the animals are probably short as well?

Is it worth doing something about this? If so, what? Dusting the land? Foliar feed? Nothing? Mineral supplements in feed?

Should mention that we bolus all cattle when dried off with something that does have copper included, plus all the heifers pre-first service.

 

[Adam@Rumen]

I would blood test the animals first to get a better idea, then look at the options for correcting any deficiencies after. Will be much cheaper in the long run.

You can check the mineral status of you forage for anywhere between £0 and £30, but also need to take into account any bought in feed.

 

[Cowabunga]

I'll ask the vet to blood several cows next time they visit.

 

[BDBed]

Forage sample is where I would start. As that will give the full picture of what is going on. Not just that your low in copper but any antagonist that might be causing you an issue as well.

 

[Ffermer Bach]

have you tried talking to trace element services, http://www.traceelementservices.co.uk/ they make mixtures of trace elements to spread on the fields with a quad bike (and loan the spreader too) and also drenches for animals. It is expensive but I think it is worth it, only in Carmarthen as well

 

[Whitepeak]

Recently had the farm's soil deeply analysed and found a consistent serious copper deficiency over the whole farm. It seems to me that if the soil is short of copper, that maybe the forage is short as well. In which case the animals are probably short as well?

Is it worth doing something about this? If so, what? Dusting the land? Foliar feed? Nothing? Mineral supplements in feed?

Should mention that we bolus all cattle when dried off with something that does have copper included, plus all the heifers pre-first service.

Is it low copper levels? Or high antagonists reducing copper availability? Or both?

 

[DrDunc]

Don't bother spraying ground with copper. It'll wreck the sprayer, cost the earth, and give you very little return for the effort.

Farm here is extremely low in copper and selenium. My father tried spraying some fields, but you get a short term gain at best, and poison sheep at worst.

As already said, I analyse the forage and blood test, then bolus and add a mineral supplement to the feed. Haven't found a more cost effective method yet.

 

[Dry Rot]

I have copper and cobalt deficiency here. I think a deficiency in one or the other causes wasting and a coppe/red colour to the coat, at least in sheep. I used to dose the sheep with a capsule but still got one to two lambs with the colured fleece and wasting, so I assume they coughed up the capsule.

A free access mineral lick (Red Rockies for cattle) does adults because they soon learn what they need, but lambs can be stupid. If I forget to put a block out when they change fields, they soon let me know they appreciate it when I put the salt block out. The cattle blocks are not usually recommended for sheep as they contain copper which is poisonous to sheep, but it is so deficient here the vets recommended it!

 

[Cowabunga]

have you tried talking to trace element services, http://www.traceelementservices.co.uk/ they make mixtures of trace elements to spread on the fields with a quad bike (and loan the spreader too) and also drenches for animals. It is expensive but I think it is worth it, only in Carmarthen as well

Well well! Never heard of them before. Jon Williams, formerly of ACT, sent a leaflet here the other day. He now brands himself rather grandly as 'The Soil Expert'. He has a stand at the Pembrokeshire Show, starting tomorrow. Perhaps Trace Element Services may also be there. I'll keep my eye open.

 

[Ffermer Bach]

Well well! Never heard of them before. Jon Williams, formerly of ACT, sent a leaflet here the other day. He now brands himself rather grandly as 'The Soil Expert'. He has a stand at the Pembrokeshire Show, starting tomorrow. Perhaps Trace Element Services may also be there. I'll keep my eye open.

I was told about them by a very efficient farmer, who I thought if he was going to use them they must be good

 

[PSQ]

Edit: this time with link

http://corn.agronomy.wisc.edu/Management/pdfs/a2527.pdf

I know it's a long way to Wisconsin, but this is one of the only modern sources I could find that gives a recommended rate when I was looking to apply Coper to to some deficient fields (which now sample as 'normal'). Just beware that feed grade copper sulphate contains a silicate anti caking agent (fine sand) and it can be a royal PITA for blocking sprayer jets...

 

[Northeastfarmer]

Get em bolused if short

 

[Cowabunga]

Get em bolused if short

I do.
It's a big job to bolus them all at once though and once annually is enough as far as doing that job goes. It is not without its hazards to human health and safety and there must be easier ways that do not involve manually handling each individual animal.

 

[Homesy]

Soil copper levels are not that important. Availability is the key. Tissue samples from forage with give you a better idea. My soils are short of sulphur according to the soil test. My agronomist said I needed 50 units. I ignored him and put nothing on. My silage was high in sulphur. Go figure. Blood tests are fairly meaningless. You either need to get some liver samples from barren cows at the abattoir or get you vet to do some biopsies. An article in the Mole valley newsletter stated 73.5% of liver samples from cull cows tested for copper, were above normal. Be very careful giving extra copper until you have done some proper testing. Take advice from your vet. Too much copper can be fatal.

 

[Bill the Bass]

Soil copper levels are not that important. Availability is the key. Tissue samples from forage with give you a better idea. My soils are short of sulphur according to the soil test. My agronomist said I needed 50 units. I ignored him and put nothing on. My silage was high in sulphur. Go figure. Blood tests are fairly meaningless. You either need to get some liver samples from barren cows at the abattoir or get you vet to do some biopsies. An article in the Mole valley newsletter stated 73.5% of liver samples from cull cows tested for copper, were above normal. Be very careful giving extra copper until you have done some proper testing. Take advice from your vet. Too much copper can be fatal.

Why do you say blood tests are meaningless?

 

[Homesy]

Why do you say blood tests are meaningless?

What the vet told me. Very poor correlation between serum and liver levels. Copper is stored in the liver. That is where the problems occur if it is too high. I lost a cow from copper toxicity so did some testing. All my biopsies were high. One or two critical. Was told not to feed any copper for two years. All they had had was in feed mins, no blocks or boluses. Calves fed too much copper, will store it in the liver and it can cause problems as milking cows.

 

[neilo]

Why do you say blood tests are meaningless?

I have had sheep actually dieing of copper deficiency (scouring to death) whilst showing as OK on blood tests. High molybdenum levels meant that antagonist was binding with copper in the blood, making it unavailable, whilst still showing as adequate copper levels.
Copper levels in forage and soil tests have always come back as adequate too. Molybdenum levels in those same tests have always come back as high. You really need to do extensive testing to put all the pieces of the puzzle together.

I have to provide copper in the ration somehow, in order to ‘mop up’ the moly, even to continental breeds. Many people locally just make ‘cattle’ mineral buckets available to their sheep all year round, for the same reason.

 

[Dry Rot]

Soil copper levels are not that important. Availability is the key. Tissue samples from forage with give you a better idea. My soils are short of sulphur according to the soil test. My agronomist said I needed 50 units. I ignored him and put nothing on. My silage was high in sulphur. Go figure. Blood tests are fairly meaningless. You either need to get some liver samples from barren cows at the abattoir or get you vet to do some biopsies. An article in the Mole valley newsletter stated 73.5% of liver samples from cull cows tested for copper, were above normal. Be very careful giving extra copper until you have done some proper testing. Take advice from your vet. Too much copper can be fatal.

I'd agree with that. Some breeds of sheep are highly copper tolerant. Others not so. Google "North Ronaldsay sheep". Plenty of articles on the internet about copper and sheep. Don't know anything about cattle.

The short answer is, know your stock. They are not all equal.

 

[Agrivator]

It's true that more sheep die of copper deficiency rather than copper toxicity.

When reclamation of hill ground was encouraged, sheep and cattle grazing on reseeds on peaty/humose soils suffered from very severe copper deficiency. The recommendation, which was successful, was to apply copper oxychloride in powder form to the seedbed. Off-hand I can't remember the application rate.

 

[Ysgythan]

Get rid of anything with a black head. Put Texels on Cheviots.