Cover crops versus cultivation

[JCfarmer]

Apparently there is an article in the DDer magazine issue 12, page 91. Trialled for 6 years so far.
Cultivation comes out on top giving £125 ha return over cover crops anually even for spring crops when cover is growing for longer. Blackgrass control was no better than stale seedbeds and if anything slightly worse.
Discuss
I should add I don't read the magazine and only came across this in the DD section but it is absolutely fine in here because cultivation is mentioned.

 

[teslacoils]

Muck.
Lime.
Plough.

In that order of importance.

 

[deleted user 837354]

Apparently there is an article in the DDer magazine issue 12, page 91. Trialled for 6 years so far.
Cultivation comes out on top giving £125 ha return over cover crops anually even for spring crops when cover is growing for longer. Blackgrass control was no better than stale seedbeds and if anything slightly worse.
Discuss
I should add I don't read the magazine and only came across this in the DD section but it is absolutely fine in here because cultivation is mentioned.

I don't see anything that controversial. Cultivations obviously bring something to the party or else our Granddads would never have done it.

In fairness, cover crops as they stand today are a new thing and we probably haven't found the optimum way of doing them yet.

 

[Spud]

The usual problem is sowing cover crops too thick, which invariably effects spring crop establishment.
The problems of pre winter cultivation are greater. Erosion, slumping, capping.
Cc is more able to mitigate high winter rainfall ime, but the density of the cc needs to be such that air can get in in to dry the soil surface. Species within also need to be fertility building, to balance n mineralised from cultivation.
Weed control in the following crop is better with a cc mulch on the surface than on a cultivated surface, here anyway.

 

[JCfarmer]

I don't see anything that controversial. Cultivations obviously bring something to the party or else our Granddads would never have done it.

In fairness, cover crops as they stand today are a new thing and we probably haven't found the optimum way of doing them yet.

Its certainly not controversial in my eyes, far from it but it certainly will be in others!

 

[SilliamWhale]

Its certainly not controversial in my eyes, far from it but it certainly will be in others!

Every farm and farmer is different. If you can't or don't want to make no till work then keep ploughing. No one cares

 

[warksfarmer]

Apparently there is an article in the DDer magazine issue 12, page 91. Trialled for 6 years so far.
Cultivation comes out on top giving £125 ha return over cover crops anually even for spring crops when cover is growing for longer. Blackgrass control was no better than stale seedbeds and if anything slightly worse.
Discuss
I should add I don't read the magazine and only came across this in the DD section but it is absolutely fine in here because cultivation is mentioned.

We definitely see better results with a mixture of both. Cover crop, top it off, light disc and drill.
Trying to find a disc/press machine at the minute if anybody is selling one in either 3m or 6m variant. Used though not new and under £10k.

 

[ajd132]

i think it can certainly be true especially on heavy ground. mainly if you dont know how to manage it, these kinds of trials when you look into them (like the ahdb cover crop trials) usually have some massive management flaw in them.

 

[JCfarmer]

A combination of cover and cultivation will work in the right circumstances, I don't grow cover crops at the moment and I try not to do any more ploughing than is necessary either. I do use a lot of farmyard manure.
Mainly carrier to to get a chit, LD topsoiler, drill.

 

[yellow belly]

the trials need to look long term at cover crops 10 or more years

if you are growing spring crops then some cover to use the autumn available nitrogen needs to be in place
if n rates get restricted then prevention of losses will be come essential
currently putting an extra 50 kg of n is the easy option to measure in trials

when we could grow early drilled wheat and rape the winter losses were much lower than mid october planted wheat and beans

leaving bare ground over winter is very wastefull in terms of nutrient usages
at some point even in a dry winter we have enough rain to wash the free nutrients into the sea

 

[Will 1594]

We definitely see better results with a mixture of both. Cover crop, top it off, light disc and drill.
Trying to find a disc/press machine at the minute if anybody is selling one in either 3m or 6m variant. Used though not new and under £10k.

Knight 700 triple press , we have one and rob k has a 4 m one , heavy old things ,do a good jon can run them very shallow ,and stick tines if you wish , we pull a 2 ft coil behind too , leaves a nice finish

 

[Will 1594]

the trials need to look long term at cover crops 10 or more years

if you are growing spring crops then some cover to use the autumn available nitrogen needs to be in place
if n rates get restricted then prevention of losses will be come essential
currently putting an extra 50 kg of n is the easy option to measure in trials

when we could grow early drilled wheat and rape the winter losses were much lower than mid october planted wheat and beans

leaving bare ground over winter is very wastefull in terms of nutrient usages
at some point even in a dry winter we have enough rain to wash the free nutrients into the sea

So what do you do on heavish land coming beetb,where you have to september plough and knock it down to get a nice seed bed ,
got 4 different cover on 3 fields at minute hope your rightb,as one a sticky old field coming beet sheep will eat it off when dry enoughnand hopefully quick tickle with knight and ld subsoiler where beet rows run and mulch drill

 

[yellow belly]

So what do you do on heavish land coming beetb,where you have to september plough and knock it down to get a nice seed bed ,
got 4 different cover on 3 fields at minute hope your rightb,as one a sticky old field coming beet sheep will eat it off when dry enoughnand hopefully quick tickle with knight and ld subsoiler where beet rows run and mulch drill

I cannot grow beet
the land I farm has never grown root crops the soil damage would take several years to repair

 

[JCfarmer]

I wonder if this thread would of had more takers/more replies if cover crops produced £125ha return over cultivation?

 

[Bury the Trash]

Its Human nature.
people like

new things and ideas to be interested in ,
makes the (Western) World go round i suppose.

 

[Brisel]

I wonder if this thread would of had more takers/more replies if cover crops produced £125ha return over cultivation?

Countryside Stewardship (SW6) pays £114/ha for cover crops. Not quite the margin you had in mind as it’s before any costs too, nor is it necessarily the right mindset if you want a long term benefit to be dependent on a taxpayer handout.

 

[Bury the Trash]

Countryside Stewardship (SW6) pays £114/ha for cover crops. Not quite the margin you had in mind as it’s before any costs too, nor is it necessarily the right mindset if you want a long term benefit to be dependent on a taxpayer handout.

and have even less freedom / more rules paperwork to follow.

We would have to sow something pretty darn unpalatable, for it not to be eaten off tight in this, the beginning Hungry gap period....if you keep sheep.

mind you there would be no requirement , then , for 'good trash clearance ' drill

 

[JCfarmer]

Countryside Stewardship (SW6) pays £114/ha for cover crops. Not quite the margin you had in mind as it’s before any costs too, nor is it necessarily the right mindset if you want a long term benefit to be dependent on a taxpayer handout.

Cover crop before a spring crop ONLY though and cannot be sprayed off till late Jan early Feb.

 

[Brisel]

Cover crop before a spring crop ONLY though and cannot be sprayed off till late Jan early Feb.

Yes, thanks for clarifying that. I must reread that article in the magazine!

 

[JCfarmer]

i think it can certainly be true especially on heavy ground. mainly if you dont know how to manage it, these kinds of trials when you look into them (like the ahdb cover crop trials) usually have some massive management flaw in them.

Heavy ground cover cropping can be a nightmare as I understand it and is probably best suited for spring cropping?
Regarding the trials by Agrii I have it on GOOD authority(no one to do with agrii) that they have been/are being carried out professionally.