DEFRA Sustainable Farm Incentive

[delilah]

Your "Elms and Critical Mass" document is a very pertinent piece, but will be ignored by farming and Govt/DEFRA. More fool farming...

I was thing along the same line last week with rteference to your first para. on critical mass. It is something many of us have or will experience sooner than we like.

It has been read by the top policy people at NFU and by the people writing ELMS, all we need is for the former to demand it of the latter and the jobs a good'un.
I have had feedback from Defra suggesting that such a weighted system would be difficult to implement. If that is the only argument against it then I am confident that a way can be found, as compared to much of what is in the SFI it would be simplicity itself.

 

[Dry Rot]

And….will land that isn’t tied in to these schemes (for an obviously indeterminate period) , command a premium in future?

Yet those who decline to participate are called stupid!

 

[ewald]

Let's face facts

The era of subsidised agriculture is coming to an end in the UK for now

ELMS (in its various manifestations) is a governmental fig leaf to try to keep our industry and the environmentalists happy - it will do neither

Do your sums - if you can't survive without SFP I am afraid you face a difficult time

 

[steveR]

Let's face facts

The era of subsidised agriculture is coming to an end in the UK for now

ELMS (in its various manifestations) is a governmental fig leaf to try to keep our industry and the environmentalists happy - it will do neither

Do your sums - if you can't survive without SFP I am afraid you face a difficult time

That will include 90%+ of upland farms and a pretty high % of lowland farms, although that figure escapes me.

 

[DRC]

I’m thinking that Elms might, if the payments are upped from the pilot, actually keep the older farmers on the land. ( The ones they want to get rid of ). Stick enough of the farm into options that don’t require much work, stop hedge cutting everything etc and it could be a nice pension .

 

[Clive]

It's quite simple.
With CSS you get paid to leave overwintered stubble.
With ELMS you get paid not to leave overwintered stubble.
Ergo, conduct a referendum of your birds to see which they prefer, and Bob's your uncle .

my birds much prefer cover crops - lots of data here to prove the benefits to numbers and species diversity

 

[delilah]

my birds much prefer cover crops - lots of data here to prove the benefits to numbers and species diversity

I'm sure that's right. It seems utterly bizarre that the soil standard puts heavy emphasis on paying you to ensure nothing is left bare over winter, only for the land standard to then pay you to leave bare stubble. But then, I am struggling to find much that makes any sense in the SFD.

 

[delilah]

That will include 90%+ of upland farms and a pretty high % of lowland farms, although that figure escapes me.

There are at least signs that Defra have belatedly recognised this, with introduction of the new 'moorland and rough grazing' standard.

 

[steveR]

my birds much prefer cover crops - lots of data here to prove the benefits to numbers and species diversity

Totally agree after many many years of different options about the farm.

Last Autumn, I DD into a wheat stubble with a simple BumbleBird mix, cheap and cheerful 5 species and as a first attempt with the Aitchison in an Autumn stubble scenario, I was quite happy with the results.

In the same field, another 6ha of WW stubble was left as Overwintered stubble side by side, and then disced this Spring as a summer fallow. The B&B mix was much more interesting to all wildlife for the past 10months. Modern herbicides are so good, there is usually naff all habitat for wildlife in the old stubble.

I did some trials work 20 years ago and disced some stubble side by side with undisced, and the researcher and myself, both felt working the stubbles was beneficial overwinter and into the Spring. Someone somewhere disagreed, so stubble it is...

 

[steveR]

I’m thinking that Elms might, if the payments are upped from the pilot, actually keep the older farmers on the land. ( The ones they want to get rid of ). Stick enough of the farm into options that don’t require much work, stop hedge cutting everything etc and it could be a nice pension .

You mean us don't you.....?

The question is how much will the Rent be, or in my case the payments to the Bank! Amounts to the same thing mind...

 

[Jackov Altraids]

I still believe they are pursuing this the wrong way around.

They are spending so much time and money trying to come up with plans to tell landowners exactly what to do. Tell landowners what you want achieved and what your willing to pay for it and leave it up to them.

 

[steveR]

I still believe they are pursuing this the wrong way around.

They are spending so much time and money trying to come up with plans to tell landowners exactly what to do. Tell landowners what you want achieved and what your willing to pay for it and leave it up to them.

You are fighting against generations worth of "inherited" behaviour in politicians and bureaucrats that emphasises and encourages control behaviour.

 

[Formatted]

I don't understand what is so complicated about this, is it because farmers are so used to the BPS gravy train they can't do a bit of research?

ELMs will be three tiers and encompass both elements of BPS and CSS

• Tier 1 is SFI - you'll be paid to farm well, but less than at the rate of BPS
• Tier 2 is unannounced - but will be a lot of what is in CSS today, farmers can choose to reduce production to help nature and get paid for it
• Tier 3 is Landscape-level recovery - so we're talking restoration of peat bogs, multiple landowners working together to build nature corridors etc

 

[average farmer]

has anyone any good links to any info we might find useful? I've only looked on the government website but found it hard work .

I think my time so far equates to about 3 Ha of the basic payment (tier 1), land agents must be rubbing their hand together . I think I'd sooner support my income dealing with people in the real world than people living in a dream world .

 

[delilah]

has anyone any good links to any info we might find useful? I've only looked on the government website but found it hard work .

Then you've probably found the right bit . You can start from this one and other options linked from there. Bearing in mind, of course, that it has changed beyond recognition in the last month so give it another month and who knows.

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/arable-and-horticultural-soils-standard

 

[steveR]

Then you've probably found the right bit . You can start from this one and other options linked from there. Bearing in mind, of course, that it has changed beyond recognition in the last month so give it another month and who knows.

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/arable-and-horticultural-soils-standard

Janet Hughes would agree that SFI is a moving target, as is the whole ELMs fandango...

 

[delilah]

Janet Hughes would agree that SFI is a moving target, as is the whole ELMs fandango...

Why has that just conjured up an image of those ducks at the funfair, where we are trying to hit them with a popgun with dodgy sights ......?

 

[DRC]

Then you've probably found the right bit . You can start from this one and other options linked from there. Bearing in mind, of course, that it has changed beyond recognition in the last month so give it another month and who knows.

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/arable-and-horticultural-soils-standard

As ve said before , I see we are to be encouraged to subsoil and cultivate to alleviate compaction.
Doesnt this go against the wisdom on here, that says soils will right themselves under a no till regime .

 

[4course]

I’m thinking that Elms might, if the payments are upped from the pilot, actually keep the older farmers on the land. ( The ones they want to get rid of ). Stick enough of the farm into options that don’t require much work, stop hedge cutting everything etc and it could be a nice pension .

the older farmers are more than likely to remain or at least this one is payments going -pension coming business in a good position,i.e no or little borrowings ,already diversified , having as a tenant farmer looked into the various schemes and more or less thought bo----ks am now looking forward to farming ,what when and how i like back to how it was when starting out as a lad

 

[Jackov Altraids]

I don't understand what is so complicated about this, is it because farmers are so used to the BPS gravy train they can't do a bit of research?

ELMs will be three tiers and encompass both elements of BPS and CSS

• Tier 1 is SFI - you'll be paid to farm well, but less than at the rate of BPS
• Tier 2 is unannounced - but will be a lot of what is in CSS today, farmers can choose to reduce production to help nature and get paid for it
• Tier 3 is Landscape-level recovery - so we're talking restoration of peat bogs, multiple landowners working together to build nature corridors etc

Are you having a laugh?...
Otherwise I'm not sure about the point you are trying to make.

It is complicated in that nothing is yet decided and much has already been changed.
It is complicated in that some requirements seem to contradict each other.
And the main complication is working out the cost of meeting the requirements. You can simply stick your head in the sand and sign up if you want but from my early calculations, the payments won't cover the drop in productivity let alone pay me for my time.
Your "you'll be paid to farm well, but less than at the rate of BPS" is a really good joke.
For low input grassland it is 9% of BPS.