Do we need stricter gun laws?

[ollie989898]

The thing that I don't understand is this.

If you asked the entire population of legal firearms owners in the UK and asked them if the laws should be relaxed to make it easier to get a license, I bet none or very few of them would say yes. I suspect a proportion of them would like more scope in terms of the kind of firearms that could be legally owned perhaps. I don't believe the average UK citizen should be freely available to buy any firearm, much less pistols or the like. Most UK punters can't use a knife and fork properly and loses the plot if someone cuts them up on a roundabout.

Surely, the raft of legal gun owners in the USA are in favour of much tighter standards as the UK contingent are?


And this 'ah but you're penalising the legal gun owners' is BS. Who on TFF thinks anyone should be able to buy and drive a car on the roads without demonstrating they are competent to do so first?

 

[arcobob]

The thing that I don't understand is this.

If you asked the entire population of legal firearms owners in the UK and asked them if the laws should be relaxed to make it easier to get a license, I bet none or very few of them would say yes. I suspect a proportion of them would like more scope in terms of the kind of firearms that could be legally owned perhaps. I don't believe the average UK citizen should be freely available to buy any firearm, much less pistols or the like. Most UK punters can't use a knife and fork properly and loses the plot if someone cuts them up on a roundabout.

Surely, the raft of legal gun owners in the USA are in favour of much tighter standards as the UK contingent are?


And this 'ah but you're penalising the legal gun owners' is BS. Who on TFF thinks anyone should be able to buy and drive a car on the roads without demonstrating they are competent to do so first?

Most country folk have been brought up for generations handling and using firearms from an early age. I am sure that they have a very good record of sensible ownership and responsible use. Most would also testify to the fact that many urbanites who have entered the rural culture do not display the same skills or respect for firearms..

 

[wanton dwarf]

And this 'ah but you're penalising the legal gun owners' is BS. Who on TFF thinks anyone should be able to buy and drive a car on the roads without demonstrating they are competent to do so first?

I don't think the problem in the USA is anything to do with whether stricter laws should be introduced.

The problem is there are so many guns already owned or stolen by criminals.

Those that need guns to protect their property are not going to give them up, nor are the authorities, nor are private security and the criminals are not either. Mexican stand off.

Yes the nutters shouldn't have guns but I think there are probably a very large number of them.

On top of this is drug culture - in mexico I see the death rate is now 1.5 in a 1,000 - we can crow in the UK but I think the UK is definately getting more violent and crime is just not being punished.

 

[ollie989898]

I don't think the problem in the USA is anything to do with whether stricter laws should be introduced.

The problem is there are so many guns already owned or stolen by criminals.

Those that need guns to protect their property are not going to give them up, nor are the authorities, nor are private security and the criminals are not either. Mexican stand off.

Yes the nutters shouldn't have guns but I think there are probably a very large number of them.

On top of this is drug culture - in mexico I see the death rate is now 1.5 in a 1,000 - we can crow in the UK but I think the UK is definately getting more violent and crime is just not being punished.

It matters not how many firearms are already in circulation. As the Australians showed, you can implement stiffer gun laws retrospectively, and if you want to legally own a weapon you either apply and obtain a license or you hand the things in, it's not rocket science.

Maybe the UK is growing a bit more violent, but it is a fact that even a single shot firearm gives someone the ability to kill a lot of other people very rapidly. In the UK we accept that firearms have a useful role to play in society and allow our citizens to own them, provided of course they are not mentally ill or a criminal.

I don't buy this talk about the constitution being unassailable, either- it's been amended many times.

 

[wanton dwarf]

It matters not how many firearms are already in circulation. As the Australians showed, you can implement stiffer gun laws retrospectively, and if you want to legally own a weapon you either apply and obtain a license or you hand the things in, it's not rocket science.

There are laws already for not murdering people but that doesn't mean people abide by them.

1/2 Billion guns in the USA.

Let's say each gun needs 30 mins of time to deal with, checking and dealing with the consequences - if someone worked 24hrs a day it would take 10,416,666.66 man days of work. But it still won't fix the crazy people.

 

[Martin Holden]

Another masa shooting in America today. They have a big problem over there.

 

[ollie989898]

There are laws already for not murdering people but that doesn't mean people abide by them.

1/2 Billion guns in the USA.

Let's say each gun needs 30 mins of time to deal with, checking and dealing with the consequences - if someone worked 24hrs a day it would take 10,416,666.66 man days of work. But it still won't fix the crazy people.

Come on now, the Australians managed, as did the UK, actually. It's quite simple. You tell all gun owners to apply for a license and list all their firearms and serial numbers, or they will be breaking the law. Either comply with this or surrender your weapons. Such is the way of society unfortunately.

 

[Scholsey]

It’s madness they have found the ‘high powered’ AR and don’t know who it belongs to! The fact the gunman was able to fire 60 shots in 20 seconds into a crowd with a fully legal firearm is terrifying, miracle more werent killed.

I honestly think I would immigrate rather than bring a family up in the US with the gun madness there at the moment, it’s only going to get worse as poverty increases.

 

[unlacedgecko]

It’s madness they have found the ‘high powered’ AR and don’t know who it belongs to! The fact the gunman was able to fire 60 shots in 20 seconds into a crowd with a fully legal firearm is terrifying, miracle more werent killed.

I honestly think I would immigrate rather than bring a family up in the US with the gun madness there at the moment, it’s only going to get worse as poverty increases.

Research ghost guns and 80% uppers

 

[Scholsey]

Research ghost guns and 80% uppers

US has become a really bad joke, think a serious global recession could cause all sorts of trouble over there.

 

[The Agrarian]

Came up on my news feed tonight.

We will teach ourselves and our children to beat guns into plowshares. We will nourish abundant life. On July 4th and every day, we deserve to live free... | By Middle ChurchFacebook

We will teach ourselves and our children to beat guns into plowshares. We will nourish abundant life. On July 4th and every day, we deserve to live free...

fb.watch

 

[kiwi pom]

The thing that I don't understand is this.

If you asked the entire population of legal firearms owners in the UK and asked them if the laws should be relaxed to make it easier to get a license, I bet none or very few of them would say yes. I suspect a proportion of them would like more scope in terms of the kind of firearms that could be legally owned perhaps. I don't believe the average UK citizen should be freely available to buy any firearm, much less pistols or the like. Most UK punters can't use a knife and fork properly and loses the plot if someone cuts them up on a roundabout.

Surely, the raft of legal gun owners in the USA are in favour of much tighter standards as the UK contingent are?


And this 'ah but you're penalising the legal gun owners' is BS. Who on TFF thinks anyone should be able to buy and drive a car on the roads without demonstrating they are competent to do so first?

No they don't want anything that may restrict their right to own guns.
The driving license thing is misleading, anyone can own a car in the UK or US and drive it on their property. They must however have a license to drive in public. Not every state in the US allows open carry and I believe some that do also have rules and restrictions around it. Concealed carry requires additional rules/permits etc.
There's just too many guns there to do much about it, plus I think their self defence laws allow them to have a gun, so they can have them in their home in case they are attacked.
Not saying I agree with it but its just different there.

 

[Vader]

Another masa shooting in America today. They have a big problem over there.

Denmark as well.

 

[ollie989898]

No they don't want anything that may restrict their right to own guns.
The driving license thing is misleading, anyone can own a car in the UK or US and drive it on their property. They must however have a license to drive in public. Not every state in the US allows open carry and I believe some that do also have rules and restrictions around it. Concealed carry requires additional rules/permits etc.
There's just too many guns there to do much about it, plus I think their self defence laws allow them to have a gun, so they can have them in their home in case they are attacked.
Not saying I agree with it but its just different there.

The constitution was written during the era of muzzle loaded muskets and pistols and the exact wording says 'well regulated'. I do not see it as meaning any man jack can have a belt fed machine gun.

 

[kiwi pom]

The constitution was written during the era of muzzle loaded muskets and pistols and the exact wording says 'well regulated'. I do not see it as meaning any man jack can have a belt fed machine gun.

You can argue about what type of weapons they're allowed, I believe that already happens but the biggest argument you have to overcome is the majority of people want a firearm to protect themselves and it seems the constitution still protects that, people don't want government interfering with their lives. I don't think there's any easy solution.

 

[ollie989898]

You can argue about what type of weapons they're allowed, I believe that already happens but the biggest argument you have to overcome is the majority of people want a firearm to protect themselves and it seems the constitution still protects that, people don't want government interfering with their lives. I don't think there's any easy solution.

I'm not saying people should not be allowed to own a firearm. I'm saying they should need a license to do so. People with a criminal history or mental illness would not be allowed them. This is how the bulk of the developed world seems to operate. In places like Poland with the correct licensing you are allowed fully automatic AK47s, MP5s, the whole lot. Yet they have tighter gun laws and don't seem to suffer with mass shootings as often as the USA?

 

[unlacedgecko]

I'm not saying people should not be allowed to own a firearm. I'm saying they should need a license to do so. People with a criminal history or mental illness would not be allowed them. This is how the bulk of the developed world seems to operate. In places like Poland with the correct licensing you are allowed fully automatic AK47s, MP5s, the whole lot. Yet they have tighter gun laws and don't seem to suffer with mass shootings as often as the USA?

At a federal level the US already doesn't allow felons to posses firearms. And "red flag" laws are supposed to prevent mentally unstable people from possessing them. I concede these laws aren't in every state, and application of them appears poor.

 

[Scholsey]

At a federal level the US already doesn't allow felons to posses firearms. And "red flag" laws are supposed to prevent mentally unstable people from possessing them. I concede these laws aren't in every state, and application of them appears poor.

more and more of the mass shootings seem to be late teens early 20s why isn’t there a age restriction on firearms, why should a 18 year old be able to buy a 30 shot mag AR with no gun experience at all? The 5th amendment was written based on muzzle loaders not the killing machines available today!

 

[unlacedgecko]

more and more of the mass shootings seem to be late teens early 20s why isn’t there a age restriction on firearms, why should a 18 year old be able to buy a 30 shot mag AR with no gun experience at all? The 5th amendment was written based on muzzle loaders not the killing machines available today!

The 5th was written when repeating firearms (including the multi barrel Puckle Gun) were available.

 

[Scholsey]

The 5th was written when repeating firearms (including the multi barrel Puckle Gun) were available.

I bet they still weren’t expecting 18 year olds to have the firepower of a entire squadron in their bedroom wardrobe.