Ethanol , will the government take notice?

Flat 10

Member
Location
Fen Edge
If a digester utilising grass and making power popped up in a stock area, offering farmers say 25 percent more for their grass than they could make feeding it to sucklers, they'd take that wouldn't they?

Mr Public appears not to want to eat meat or gluten as much, but still want to run their cars . If they can do this with a fuel that makes them feel warm and fuzzy, while they get aboard their flight to the Maldives in a jet running on tax free fuel; drinking tax- free booze while pumping out the co2 then why not?

Ethanol plant is a great home for UK wheat and the logistics, feedback, etc make most other mills look a complete joke.
I hate the hypocrisy of the modern world.
 

Chris F

Staff Member
The government have to do something to combat the reduction in diesel usage - so this makes sense as a policy for them.
 

Chris F

Staff Member
Is there almost a moral obligation for livestock farmers with crop growing land to grow crops and cut animal numbers?
I am feeling that myself and reduce grass each year.
:pompous:
Not at all. If you read the post I did last week on "the truth about Methane", there are easy ways to reduce methane production by 10% and not reduce herd sizes. A 10% reduction is all it takes with methane to stop methane causing global warming.
 

goodevans

Member
Out of interest which way would create most efficient energy ,wheat into ethanol and then byproducts into AD or wheat straight into AD
 
The government have to do something to combat the reduction in diesel usage - so this makes sense as a policy for them.
Germany apparently has no Fosil/oil fuel based under its land so fuel comes from above ground as plant based, ie osr ,wheat etc.
So in Biodiesel, RME , rape methyl Ester fuel the chemicals to make it are Methanol and Sodium or Potassium Hydrochloride for diesel type engines.
And Ethanol with wheat for petrol type engines.
It's all political.
They have messed around with engines so much ,that emmissions ,management ,fuel system don't like bio fuels.
All the old engines ,rotary fuel pumps etc ,run fine in it all.
Renewable and greener biofuels but they never really supported it or promoted it well.
You can fry your chips in the oil and then run your vehicle on it afterwards.
Rape oil is the best.
Even the spent Glycerine producted in the process is soap and is sort after with ADplants.
 

digger64

Member
If a digester utilising grass and making power popped up in a stock area, offering farmers say 25 percent more for their grass than they could make feeding it to sucklers, they'd take that wouldn't they?

Mr Public appears not to want to eat meat or gluten as much, but still want to run their cars . If they can do this with a fuel that makes them feel warm and fuzzy, while they get aboard their flight to the Maldives in a jet running on tax free fuel; drinking tax- free booze while pumping out the co2 then why not?

Ethanol plant is a great home for UK wheat and the logistics, feedback, etc make most other mills look a complete joke.
They wouldn't be able to take it , the landlord /owner would take it , the rent would go up as everyone fought over what was left to hire and they would be put out business(these people might be your indirect customers for other farm products ) by a government sub that was supposed to help the industry as a whole, financed from taxes that they may have paid themselves then of course all the supply industry,haulage and meat processing would also take a hit (who also pay taxes ) .
Of course if there was no sub to assist running and setting these things up one could call it life or hardluck .But would they
then start ? and if it stopped having destroyed the local infrastructure would it be able to keep going ?
Agriculture is unfortunately not a cost +margin = profit business , so one cant put stock prices up to cover increased rent costs etc
as
these will be set by the alternative -imported produce and currency value .
Like most things in nature interfere with one thing and it upsets another , what sort of countryside / industry structure do you want to see ?
 
Out of interest which way would create most efficient energy ,wheat into ethanol and then byproducts into AD or wheat straight into AD

Depends on your purpose ?

Ethanol is essentially a brewing process .. with a by product that can be fed to livestock.

AD is essentailly a digestion process similar to a cows stomach .. with a by product that can be used to fertilise crops.


It would be very nice to see our dear leaders following an integrated waste management system which sent waste food into such schemes AND grew reed crops or similar in our river deltas, to be harvested for AD etc .. same with seaweed.

HMG needs to stop pumping valuable nutrients into the sea IMHO.
 

goodevans

Member
Depends on your purpose ?

Ethanol is essentially a brewing process .. with a by product that can be fed to livestock.

AD is essentailly a digestion process similar to a cows stomach .. with a by product that can be used to fertilise crops.


It would be very nice to see our dear leaders following an integrated waste management system which sent waste food into such schemes AND grew reed crops or similar in our river deltas, to be harvested for AD etc .. same with seaweed.

HMG needs to stop pumping valuable nutrients into the sea IMHO.
But what I meant was ethanol is produced as a fuel ,just wandering which way would produce most joules of energy per ton
 

Henarar

Member
Is there almost a moral obligation for livestock farmers with crop growing land to grow crops and cut animal numbers?
I am feeling that myself and reduce grass each year.
:pompous:
depends just what you are doing with the land that was grass, you could well be making things worse depending on what you are doing now and how you managed the grass beforehand and how you grazed the cattle on it
I feel no moral obligation to cut animal numbers just to try to improve management
in a lot of places in the world more cattle are needed not less
don't forget that grassland and the animals that grazed it evolved together over thousands of years and nothing bad happened
we come along and dig up some crap that hadn't seen the light of day for millennia and burn it and the sh!t hits the fan
its time the culprit took the blame not the scapegoat or cow in this case, folk need to stand back and think about what has changed and what hasn't and take some responsibility if they feel they should even if it does cut in to how they live and enjoy their life
 

Bill the Bass

Member
Location
Cumbria
Is there almost a moral obligation for livestock farmers with crop growing land to grow crops and cut animal numbers?
I am feeling that myself and reduce grass each year.
:pompous:
I often think that and it seems on the face of it that’s what people want. So say I turn half of the farm to crops, it’s not big enough to justify my own kit so it’s contractors (all plough and power Harrow round here), its a pretty damp climate in east Cumbria but we can still grow good crops, fungicide use would be pretty high though and it would need either Pre harvest Glyphosate or big drying costs, I would say at least once every ten years we have a drastic harvest which turns into salvage operations and the abuse of machinery, men and most importantly soils both at harvest and consequent next crops sowing.

All of a sudden raising a few beef cattle which are hardly medicated on grassland which receives minimum input seems pretty environmentally benign. The trouble is the half wits who are shouting at the idiots who are developing current policy are devoid of any practical common sense or life experience.

As Eisenhower said ‘farming looks mighty easy when your plough is a pen and your a thousand miles form the corn field’
 
If a digester utilising grass and making power popped up in a stock area, offering farmers say 25 percent more for their grass than they could make feeding it to sucklers, they'd take that wouldn't they?

Mr Public appears not to want to eat meat or gluten as much, but still want to run their cars . If they can do this with a fuel that makes them feel warm and fuzzy, while they get aboard their flight to the Maldives in a jet running on tax free fuel; drinking tax- free booze while pumping out the co2 then why not?

Ethanol plant is a great home for UK wheat and the logistics, feedback, etc make most other mills look a complete joke.
Echoes my thoughts: it's apparently so wrong if crops are grown to feed to animals to create high quality protein human food but it's ok to use the same arable land to grow crops to feed AD or bio-ethanol plants. :rolleyes:

Echoes of the push for biodiesel which then then drive Indonesian deforestation to grow palm oil. :mad:
 
Last edited:

Henarar

Member
Echoes my thoughts: it's apparently so wrong if cross are grown to feed to animals to create his quality protein human food but it's ok to use the same arable land to grow crops to feed AD or bio-ethanol plants. :rolleyes:

Echoes of the push for biodiesel which then then drive Indonesian deforestation to grow palm oil. :mad:
stupid is as stupid does
 

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