Fertilising a "no fert" herbal ley?

[steveR]

This sounds a bit contradiction, but bear with me...

Got a new herbal ley that was DD'd in September into a WW stubble, that is looking a bit pinched and hungry after a tough winter on some wet clay. It'll be fine come June I am sure, and will grow on happily.

However, I was chatting with a friend and I wondered what response would be seen from a tickle of compound on a new ley. Obviously there will be a positive fin the grass rom a few units of N, but are there likely to be any drawbacks to the ley constituents?

 

[Kiwi Pete]

Not really, other than you'll stop any legumes in the mix from needing to do their job until the N you apply has left the system

 

[steveR]

Thanks Pete.

My idle thought (and nothing more than that!) was that in the early stages of a ley, the legumes will be a while getting going with a decent root structure and start doing their stuff, as the weather gets warmer. The wet winter will mean there is SFA soil N for early uptake...?

15-20 Units of AN is goinmg to be used up pretty quickly too I'd have thought.

 

[Kiwi Pete]

Yeah. I'd personally get it on ASAP, feeding from the top later isn't going to assist deep rooting, and I gather that's why you planted it over a conventional mix?
It's easy to negate any benefits of 'unconventional' if you manage them conventionally.

 

[davidroberts30]

Coating of slurry?

 

[steveR]

Coating of slurry?

None here, and would be May before it'd take a tanker!!

 

[steveR]

Yeah. I'd personally get it on ASAP, feeding from the top later isn't going to assist deep rooting, and I gather that's why you planted it over a conventional mix?
It's easy to negate any benefits of 'unconventional' if you manage them conventionally.

Nicely put

The driver for the leys are some support money, and it will fit in well with the exisiting stock farming and act as a learning area for me...

 

[N.Yorks.]

Did you put any FYM/slurry on in the autumn?
Have you got legumes in the mix?

 

[Kiwi Pete]

Nicely put

The driver for the leys are some support money, and it will fit in well with the exisiting stock farming and act as a learning area for me...

Miss a corner when you spread the fert, see what happens. My guess is that it will look 'sick' and eventually be the more resilient part of the field - as said elsewhere it's seldom a chemical deficiency but a biological one.

In your case it sounds like an air deficiency because of the water filling pore space

 

[steveR]

Did you put any FYM/slurry on in the autumn?
Have you got legumes in the mix?

No muck in the Autumn as time did not allow, as I needed the seeds drilled and away... Some very well rotted stuff lined up for next Autumn.

Yes, numerous legumes in the mix as is usual with commercial herbal leys. Had it off Kevin, aka @Great In Grass.

 

[DanM]

No muck in the Autumn as time did not allow, as I needed the seeds drilled and away... Some very well rotted stuff lined up for next Autumn.

Yes, numerous legumes in the mix as is usual with commercial herbal leys. Had it off Kevin, aka @Great In Grass.

Could quite possibly be the same mix we had off @Great In Grass. Planted ours early September 2019 into wheat stubble and it really struggled to get going in the wet winter. We put ewes onto it, to lamb early April 2020 set stocked for 17 days then cell grazed till end of may. Then left it to recover over the summer. I believe these herbs and legumes need chance to get their roots down. Cell grazing resumed at end of august...

Grazed again in November...

currently shut up ready for this year’s lambing again...

 

[Bury the Trash]

This sounds a bit contradiction, but bear with me...

Got a new herbal ley that was DD'd in September into a WW stubble, that is looking a bit pinched and hungry after a tough winter on some wet clay. It'll be fine come June I am sure, and will grow on happily.

However, I was chatting with a friend and I wondered what response would be seen from a tickle of compound on a new ley. Obviously there will be a positive fin the grass rom a few units of N, but are there likely to be any drawbacks to the ley constituents?

If you really can't wait, just spread a couple,of bags of compound with sulphur, don't forget the Sulphur

 

[N.Yorks.]

No muck in the Autumn as time did not allow, as I needed the seeds drilled and away... Some very well rotted stuff lined up for next Autumn.

Yes, numerous legumes in the mix as is usual with commercial herbal leys. Had it off Kevin, aka @Great In Grass.

There's research work showing small applications of N don't adversely effect nodulation of the legumes. One study (not in UK conditions) showed 10-20 kgN/ha was ok.

If you had bunged on FYM in the Autumn there would have been more soil mineral N which would have had a similar effect.

Given you're following WW the soil mineral nitrogen is probably low, so a small dose of N sounds like it would be fine. If you've got low P indices then a bit of P fert would help with rooting. If you had low K indices then the ley would also have a significant requirement for potash depending upon how many cuts/grazing rotations you're planning.

 

[steveR]

Could quite possibly be the same mix we had off @Great In Grass. Planted ours early September 2019 into wheat stubble and it really struggled to get going in the wet winter. We put ewes onto it, to lamb early April 2020 set stocked for 17 days then cell grazed till end of may. Then left it to recover over the summer. I believe these herbs and legumes need chance to get their roots down. Cell grazing resumed at end of august...

Grazed again in November...

currently shut up ready for this year’s lambing again...

So in effect,you carried out a fairly heavy "topping" in the first Spring and then left it. I would guess the hard grazing will have pushed the ley to get roots down and builk up very quickly.

 

[steveR]

If you really can't wait, just spread a couple,of bags of compound with sulphur, don't forget the Sulphur

Getting hold of N+S is nigh on impossible at present... still waiting for my order!

 

[steveR]

There's research work showing small applications of N don't adversely effect nodulation of the legumes. One study (not in UK conditions) showed 10-20 kgN/ha was ok.

If you had bunged on FYM in the Autumn there would have been more soil mineral N which would have had a similar effect.

Given you're following WW the soil mineral nitrogen is probably low, so a small dose of N sounds like it would be fine. If you've got low P indices then a bit of P fert would help with rooting. If you had low K indices then the ley would also have a significant requirement for potash depending upon how many cuts/grazing rotations you're planning.

PK is happily, pretty decent from analysis last year.

Ground conditions this morning were excellent, so I slipped on 20units/ac or for the more modern minded, around 24kg of N/ha. I left one area across the field unspread, as a visual experiment.

 

[DanM]

So in effect,you carried out a fairly heavy "topping" in the first Spring and then left it. I would guess the hard grazing will have pushed the ley to get roots down and builk up very quickly.

Bob on. Took them off before they knobbled the growing point of the chicory. Then left alone to do it’s thing

 

[Bury the Trash]

Getting hold of N+S is nigh on impossible at present... still waiting for my order!

OK

But anyway I meant a compound 20. 10. 10. S. Yara one is very active the complete package works well together better than just n ime.i know i sound a bit like an agronomist

Edit ' I think i meant yara mila which is higher n just a bag instead of 2 thats what I do on red clover ley and a rest ...in early spring after being hammered by sheep all winter .

 

[steveR]

Miss a corner when you spread the fert, see what happens. My guess is that it will look 'sick' and eventually be the more resilient part of the field - as said elsewhere it's seldom a chemical deficiency but a biological one.

In your case it sounds like an air deficiency because of the water filling pore space

More like a soil type deficiency....

 

[steveR]

OK

But anyway I meant a compound 20. 10. 10. S. Yara one is very active.

I used 20-10-10 in the end as its all i have in the shed!

No idea when the ordered mixed fert load will arrive....