Making Hay In China

[crcrofton]

We are building a Simmental beef cattle breeding operation in China and looking for some expert advice for large scale hay production over 20-50k acres. Does anyone have good ideas?

 

[Sheep]

Will you be making the hay in China or for China?

 

[Global ovine]

Grow whatever suits your environment best. If moisture is the most limiting factor, grow a perennial crop which "harvests" water best, such as Lucerne (Alphalpha). There are many large scale indoor pastoral operations in NW China and into Mongolia (involving tens of thousands of acres) that are well established that you could learn from. Almost half the word's sheep and goats are in this region with most managed on a cut and carry system.
I would have thought that detailed planning of a feeding system to be crucial before any animals arrived. The Chinese Gov't has very strict conditions for foreign investment in land based industries, especially environmental in regards to water use. Get everything sanctioned first. Warning, this may be quite costly in "oiling" the wheels of bureaucracy.

 

[crcrofton]

Sorry perhaps I wasn't clear. We already have over 1000 cattle and are making natural pasture hay and oat grass hay in China but are looking to increase our production and add alfalfa as suggested.. We are just using traditional local methods and machinery which I want to optimise and scale.

 

[crcrofton]

Grow whatever suits your environment best. If moisture is the most limiting factor, grow a perennial crop which "harvests" water best, such as Lucerne (Alphalpha). There are many large scale indoor pastoral operations in NW China and into Mongolia (involving tens of thousands of acres) that are well established that you could learn from. Almost half the word's sheep and goats are in this region with most managed on a cut and carry system.

Thank you for this but we're already the most advanced farmers in the region.. We are looking for Western standards of efficiency and production.

 

[Global ovine]

Thank you for this but we're already the most advanced farmers in the region.. We are looking for Western standards of efficiency and production.

Looks like you may need professional advice from somebody that knows local conditions, who has got a good understanding of your enterprise's financial and physical capabilities. This forum may be rather limited in providing these. There are many options when measuring efficiency of conserving pasture/crops, but which one is the appropriate measure of efficiency in your situation? e.g.
Cost per Kg of DM?
Kilo joules of energy per hectare or kg DM?
Kgs of DM per ml of rainfall + irrigation?
Cost per animal per year?
etc. etc.
You will have to give us a bit more information than that given so far.

 

[Al R]

Do you use mower conditioners? What size tractors do you have? A few set’s of triple mower conditioners would knock a fair area down for you ( each set doing 20 acre/hour )

we then use tedders to spread the grass more to make it dry quicker, there are some 15-20m wide tedders available and then you’d want a 4 or 6 rotor rake depending on crop yield and harvesting technique.

 

[Kidds]

I think I would look to Australia rather than UK for that scale of operation. There’s some big acreages done down there.

 

[MDL POWERUP]

Surely this depends on what part of china you are in? They have as much weather variation within China than there is out of China.

 

[puppet]

Thank you for this but we're already the most advanced farmers in the region.. We are looking for Western standards of efficiency and production.

Then I think you should know better than me. If the sun shines from May to September then cut 1000 acres a day and have 8 big tedders go at it assuming 300 acres each. If the weather is like here and average field 10 acres then employ 1000 Chinese farmers with a 135 and a hay Bob. Just text them all when it looks like the sun might appear.

 

[Goweresque]

Given the amount of machinery and tractors you'd need for an operation of this size, you'd also need a machinery dealership to set up shop to be able to repair and service it all. Its no good importing a boat load of Western machinery if there's no one local to maintain it. Spares would be an issue too.

One wonders if it would not make more sense to import the fodder from somewhere more set up to make it, say Australia?

 

[Chae1]

Just had to check the date. April fool?

 

[Kidds]

Given the amount of machinery and tractors you'd need for an operation of this size, you'd also need a machinery dealership to set up shop to be able to repair and service it all. Its no good importing a boat load of Western machinery if there's no one local to maintain it. Spares would be an issue too.

One wonders if it would not make more sense to import the fodder from somewhere more set up to make it, say Australia?

I have a sneaky feeling the tractors and machinery required are available from China, no need to import Western machinery, just Western methods.

 

[farmerm]

50,000ac of hay that's 78 square miles of hay! That makes what most of us would consider to be large scale production look microscopic! Are Chinese acres different to British ones? If a single farm in China can produce forage and beef on that scale so much for the hope of us Exporting beef to China, if Chinese farms on this scale become more productive by utilising western production methods but with cheap labour and low regulations they will very soon be exporting beef to us!!

The advice from this forum to this thread and all similar threads should be to watch Downton Abbey, it showcases all the latest western production methods...

 

[farmerm]

I have a sneaky feeling the tractors and machinery required are available from China, no need to import Western machinery, just Western methods.

Chinese companies don't need to import much Western machinery, 1 of each is sufficient, international patent laws etc do not apply....

 

[Al R]

Chinese companies don't need to import much Western machinery, 1 of each is sufficient, international patent laws etc do not apply....

Ask CTM what happened when the Chinese promised an order of 100 beet cleaners but wanted one first and paid for one. No more were ordered yet thousands similar were produced there....

 

[farmerm]

Ask CTM what happened when the Chinese promised an order of 100 beet cleaners but wanted one first and paid for one. No more were ordered yet thousands similar were produced there....

It's a common event! Ask a company who make Soil Moisture probes the same question! Promise of 1000's of sales, had a couple of demo units, couple of weeks later the Sales Director was invited to visit the company in China... meeting was going well until the Chinese director proudly said come see this and took his visitor across the corridor to the office of a company with a different name... the directors of these 2 Chinese companies where very proud to show off the replica sensor they had built from reverse engineering the genuine hardware in just a couple of weeks and offered to supply their manufacturing services!! Why spend money and time on R&D when you can just steal someone else's intellectual property!

 

[Agrivator]

We are building a Simmental beef cattle breeding operation in China and looking for some expert advice for large scale hay production over 20-50k acres. Does anyone have good ideas?

You'll need 20,000 to 50,000 cattle to eat all that hay - assuming you get the weather to make it.

That's going to create a hell of a midden ( pile of dung) if they need to be housed all winter. And your biggest problem will be carting and spreading the muck. Hercules and the ginormous stable springs to mind.

HERCULES 5th LABOR; CLEANING THE AUGEAN STABLES IN A SINGLE DAY

This time Eurystheus gave Hercules the labor of traveling to Augean and cleaning the king of Augean's stables in a single day.
This doesn't seem like much of a task. Although these particular stables housed thousands of cattle, sheep, goats, and horses and the stable had not been cleaned in 30 years. The Augean king was said to have more cattle then any man in Greece.
When Hercules showed up he offered to clean the stables in a single day for 1/10 of the Augean king's entire cattle. Hercules didn’t say anything about how he was sent by Eurystheus or about his labors of redemption. The Augean King was so shocked at his fortune he agreed to pay Hercules IF he could do it in one day.
Hercules took the Augean king's son with him to witness the stables being cleaned. Hercules set to work tearing a big hole in the front of the stable yards. Next Hercules made a hole in the back wall of the stable yards. Hercules then dug a trench between 2 rivers flowing nearby. He then diverted the 2 rivers into the front of the stable yards and out the rear of the stable yards and back into the river with taking all the filth along with it.
Hercules returned to the Augean King to collect his payment. The Augean king had found out that Eurystheus had been the one to send Hercules and refused to pay him saying that if Hercules didn't agree he could always take the Augean King to court. So Hercules did just that. Hercules even had the Augean King's son testify that his father did indeed promise to pay Hercules 1/10 of all his cattle. The King reluctantly paid Hercules and then promptly banished him from his kingdom.
Hercules returned to Eurystheus to inform the king of the completion of Hercules labor. Word traveled fast, even for a time when they didn't have iPods, and Eurystheus had found out that Hercules was paid for his cleaning out of the stables, and therefore told Hercules that this labor (just like the 2nd labor) didn't count and Hercules would have to complete yet another labor before he would be able to be forgiven and retire on Mount Olympus.

 

[Nithsdale]

50,000ac of hay that's 78 square miles of hay! That makes what most of us would consider to be large scale production look microscopic! Are Chinese acres different to British ones? If a single farm in China can produce forage and beef on that scale so much for the hope of us Exporting beef to China, if Chinese farms on this scale become more productive by utilising western production methods but with cheap labour and low regulations they will very soon be exporting beef to us!!

The advice from this forum to this thread and all similar threads should be to watch Downton Abbey, it showcases all the latest western production methods...

Where can I get me one of those things in the first pic - not the mower, the unit powering it.



Asking for a friend

 

[Farmer_Joe]

Chinese companies don't need to import much Western machinery, 1 of each is sufficient, international patent laws etc do not apply....

This really is a disgrace,

Along with their human rights,

we should go u.s. on them in my opinion and ban/tax loads or all of their imports, that should help british steel !