MF148 hydraulics...

[24/7 farming]

Cheers folks!, can't really afford to lose lift control so not going to be as straight forward as I had thought!, altho do hav a set of the stays lying about and only use big bags, but would be a bit of a faf when hooking on jusy to throw a bit on a few acres!
Second hand market for manual operated spreaders is limited which is why I was looking at options for hydro operation.
Have a 398 and lifts drop on it also, not as quickly as 148, altho they barely drop at all when flicked into dual pump mode if using the loader and there is a 1ton counter weight hanging off them!
I shall consider my options!!

 

[Cowabunga]

Cheers folks!, can't really afford to lose lift control so not going to be as straight forward as I had thought!, altho do hav a set of the stays lying about and only use big bags, but would be a bit of a faf when hooking on jusy to throw a bit on a few acres!
Second hand market for manual operated spreaders is limited which is why I was looking at options for hydro operation.
Have a 398 and lifts drop on it also, not as quickly as 148, altho they barely drop at all when flicked into dual pump mode if using the loader and there is a 1ton counter weight hanging off them!
I shall consider my options!!

Get a cheap used loader for the 148 [it will spoil it though] and use the 398 for the new spreader. Far more sensible idea and you could dump a whole 600kg bag in one go rather than faff about with stopping flow at half a bag at a time.

 

[24/7 farming]

That's one from left field!, na couldn't do that to the 148, already hav managed to accumulate a second loader for the 398 as it was cheaper to buy a complete spare loader than get rams made, so now hav a short and long reach loader for it should i ever need a choice!!
Was aiming for a 500 or 600kg spreader for the 148, vicon 503 looks a handy size. Have 150kg of weights for it and has power steering so should manage.
If I could find a 5 bag extension for our current wee vicon to bring it up to 500kg capacity I would spend a bit tidying the rest of it up but them higher extensions are like hens teeth, it only has a 2 bag extension on it. Although it's also leaking in around were it oscillates so not sure what it would need to cure that issue!

 

[aidan]

Another option would be replace the hydraulic ram with a linear actuator and have a current limiter in the circuit prevent the actuator burning itself out.

 

[e3120]

What about a wee 12V pump connected to a single spool? I trust the spreader ram won't be too demanding of either pressure or flow.

 

[MF-ANDY]

Have we established that it hasn't got an aux pump?

 

[Cowabunga]

That's one from left field!, na couldn't do that to the 148, already hav managed to accumulate a second loader for the 398 as it was cheaper to buy a complete spare loader than get rams made, so now hav a short and long reach loader for it should i ever need a choice!!
Was aiming for a 500 or 600kg spreader for the 148, vicon 503 looks a handy size. Have 150kg of weights for it and has power steering so should manage.
If I could find a 5 bag extension for our current wee vicon to bring it up to 500kg capacity I would spend a bit tidying the rest of it up but them higher extensions are like hens teeth, it only has a 2 bag extension on it. Although it's also leaking in around were it oscillates so not sure what it would need to cure that issue!

I really don’t think that the 148 is up to handling a Vicon with a 600kg bag of fertiliser, although I could be wrong because the engine is mounted six inches further forward on these than on a 135, which should make a difference. I think I’m correct in thinking that you will need a 700 litre hopper or larger to hold 600kgs without spillage, which will probably need a very high extension. Do not buy a 500 litre machine or extension because it just will not hold 500kgs of the lighter density products. Most bags are 600kgs do you will need a 650 litre or larger volume hopper.

 

[Pennine Ploughing]

I only read a couple of posts,

But forget it, total waste of time and money,

It will never work as you want it

 

[Cowabunga]

On another tack. Vicon single acting ram to open the orifices has a gas accumulator return spring. This is a very strong spring, certainly when new and most cheap spool valves are not ‘zero leak’. This means that the accumulator tries to open the hopper exists at all times and oil pressure from the tractor keeps it closed. Unfortunately most cheap spool valves, including two out of three types fitted by MF from the factory, do leak back internally, which results in the hopper holes opening themselves at a significant rate [by the time you have travelled half a mile from yard to field] unless you keep pulsing the spool lever to maintain pressure in its pipes and ram every minute or two.
The good news is that with a Vicon, you will only fill the bowl to which the spout is attached, not run an expensive trail of fertiliser along the road as some spreaders would do.

 

[Cowabunga]

I only read a couple of posts,

But forget it, total waste of time and money,

It will never work as you want it

In summary, I agree. But does he want to buy a more suitable tractor and spreader fit for the mid-21st Century rather than mid 20th? Probably not.

 

[Pennine Ploughing]

In summary, I agree. But does he want to buy a more suitable tractor and spreader fit for the mid-21st Century rather than mid 20th? Probably not.

He could buy the spreader he thinks would be ok,
Remove the hydraulic ram, and get local blacksmith to forge a handle on it,
Be cheaper and less bother,

Or just patch old spreader up, or get a contractor to do it

 

[agrimax]

Have we established that it hasn't got an aux pump?

Not as such by the op. Just that it hasn't got MP or a banjo fitting on the pto plate or a diverter valve...

 

[Pennine Ploughing]

Not as such by the op. Just that it hasn't got MP or a banjo fitting on the pto plate or a diverter valve...

There is only 1 way left to find out if it has an auxiliary pump without open heart surgery, and even that will be extremely rare to have one fitted, and very surprised no one has mentioned it ,
does it have IPTO ?, or to a question to the OP, to engage the pto, do you have to press the clutch pedal right to the bottom and move selector lever ?
Or do you simply move the selector lever with out pressing the clutch pedal?
If it has IPTO, then it won't have ground drive on pto, so lever will only have 2 positions,
ie, on (back) and off (forward). Or if it has ground drive it will have 3 positions,
Forward for ground drive, middle for off, and back for engine drive, to check this put lever as far forward as possible and drive forward, if pto revolves, NO auxiliary pump

We have a 148 here, it's a multi power, and has IPTO,
there is nothing to say even if it has an auxiliary pump, it will be ok

 

[24/7 farming]

Defo no aux pump that i can tell, or ipto, or multipower, just standard pto wit ground drive.
When we got it in the 80s it had a single acting screw on type tipping pipe activated by pulling lever to constant pumping, we just replaced this with a quick release, which is tapped in under the seat were diverter valve would fit.
Spread no were near the quantities to justify a contractor that's for sure!!, the spreader we have is even sufficient for what we do, but its showing its age... was bought by my grandfather!
Just trying to make it all a bit handier with whatever is bought, hopefully 5/600kg bags will be about for a while!!, if 1ton bags become the norm I'll be back to 50kg ones!!
I will aim to find a manual spreader, just have to throw the search net a bit wider. If it was a case of bolt this on and you'll be good to go i would hav done it!
Tractor should be more that capable in every other way, in the past using small bags I have filled the hopper wit 7 bags and thrown 3 or 4 bags ontop to save a run back to finish a field!

 

[Cowabunga]

Defo no aux pump that i can tell, or ipto, or multipower, just standard pto wit ground drive.
When we got it in the 80s it had a single acting screw on type tipping pipe activated by pulling lever to constant pumping, we just replaced this with a quick release, which is tapped in under the seat were diverter valve would fit.
Spread no were near the quantities to justify a contractor that's for sure!!, the spreader we have is even sufficient for what we do, but its showing its age... was bought by my grandfather!
Just trying to make it all a bit handier with whatever is bought, hopefully 5/600kg bags will be about for a while!!, if 1ton bags become the norm I'll be back to 50kg ones!!
I will aim to find a manual spreader, just have to throw the search net a bit wider. If it was a case of bolt this on and you'll be good to go i would hav done it!
Tractor should be more that capable in every other way, in the past using small bags I have filled the hopper wit 7 bags and thrown 3 or 4 bags ontop to save a run back to finish a field!
View attachment 1174805

I spread many a ton through a Vicon exactly like that. Yes, 7cwt capacity. I had it behind a 165. I also spent a season using a trailed Vicon with a hollow auger in the long hopper spreading on a large mixed farm. This was towed behind a 135 MultiPower. One of five 135’s on the farm. Even the trailed one had a manual lever to control the flow. The trailed spreader looked huge at the time and was loaded from 50kg bags off a pallet lifted above it. I think at around that time they used glue between the bags and wrapped each pallet in polythene so that it was a stable load. The spreader either held a ton or a ton and a half pallet load, I can’t remember which.

135 and 148 without Multipower were highly unlikely to have an auxiliary pump or IPTO. The optional manual box on the 148 was an eight speed rather than the 135’s six speed, although some 135’s on the continent, French built, also had the eight speed box. The early IPTO were quite unreliable so the live and ground speed dual clutch models tended to be favoured

 

[MF-ANDY]

Yes they are. Very basic and suits basic tasks and light unsophisticated implements just fine, as they always have. Most probably use the uprated 5.8 gpm scotch yolk pump now I imagine, as fitted to the Coventry 200 series, so they have at least enough flow to turn a bale wrapper.

Same pump just turning at nearly twice the speed?

 

[Cowabunga]

Same pump just turning at nearly twice the speed?

Unlikely but I don’t know for sure. What I do know is that a 3.7 gpm pump is fitted to Brazilian built MF tractors, the 400 Series, right up to 130hp six cylinder turbo. A range that was built around 2007 or so. These had a lift capacity of 2100kgs for the 45hp model, which was probably more than adequate and about 1.5 times that of 165 back in its day. However the two six cylinder models only lift 3200kgs which sounds like being barely adequate, although in Brazil the bigger tractors would mostly be drawbar pulling in all probability. Auxiliary hydraulic pumps were available across the range.

Point being that these engines run at the traditional rated speed of 2250 for the three cylinders and 2200 for the four and sixes. They are advertised as having only slightly higher output scotch yoke pumps as the Coventry 100 series but nothing like those of later Coventry tractors. The people who would know whether the four pistons will have had different dimensions, or whether the pumps were run at higher speed would be ‘parts guys’ and actual mechanics. Not me.

 

[MF CI]

Unlikely but I don’t know for sure. What I do know is that a 3.7 gpm pump is fitted to Brazilian built MF tractors, the 400 Series, right up to 130hp six cylinder turbo. A range that was built around 2007 or so. These had a lift capacity of 2100kgs for the 45hp model, which was probably more than adequate and about 1.5 times that of 165 back in its day. However the two six cylinder models only lift 3200kgs which sounds like being barely adequate, although in Brazil the bigger tractors would mostly be drawbar pulling in all probability. Auxiliary hydraulic pumps were available across the range.

Point being that these engines run at the traditional rated speed of 2250 for the three cylinders and 2200 for the four and sixes. They are advertised as having only slightly higher output scotch yoke pumps as the Coventry 100 series but nothing like those of later Coventry tractors. The people who would know whether the four pistons will have had different dimensions, or whether the pumps were run at higher speed would be ‘parts guys’ and actual mechanics. Not me.

Fairly sure there are 23mm and 25mm pistons, and certainly later models ran at higher speeds giving more output.

In related things I know a chap at IMT designed an eight piston scotch yoke pump, basically two pumps joined together. Not sure if it made it from the drawing board to an actual prototype build. Even then the flow rate would still be less than a gear pump.