Progress

[Ysgythan]

There’s a lot of downers on Texel and mule breeding and the sheep sector in general at the minute.

culled a pure lamb today, he was 68kg and topped the mart. In 1990 when the Texel Society introduced national sales there was a minimum weight of 50kg and some didn’t make it.

weighed April born x lambs for the freezer on the weekend. Couple of singles off mules and Texel x mules were pushing 50kg and handled like a dream. In the 80s and 90s the Royal Welsh week always marked the start of lamb marketing for us, we’d sell a couple off their mothers the week before at about 43kg and wean the rest after coming back.

so isn’t this progress? Aren’t we making life a lot more complicated than we need to? Good Texel on a good mule, creep the early ones, don’t bother with the later ones. Job done.

 

[Bury the Trash]

no and because it never seemed to be a good enough Texel, too slow too big / not big enough/ all that bone.etc.. no sorry don't want to go back..deff. nope.
nothing personal mind.

 

[yellowbelly]

Always worked for us

In this part of the world Feb born creep fed lambs should be gone before the Lincolshire Show (mid June).

Laterly, we've 'tweaked' the system by using Charolais ) instead of Texel because they're just that bit quicker 'out of the blocks' to catch the better early price.

Later born lambs still by the Texel and just 'do their own thing' on grass only.
They sell better live than the Charolais - no idea why, there's nowt wrong with them at all but the live buyers prefer white faces.

It's not broke - don't mend it.

 

[M-J-G]

There’s a lot of downers on Texel and mule breeding and the sheep sector in general at the minute.

culled a pure lamb today, he was 68kg and topped the mart. In 1990 when the Texel Society introduced national sales there was a minimum weight of 50kg and some didn’t make it.

weighed April born x lambs for the freezer on the weekend. Couple of singles off mules and Texel x mules were pushing 50kg and handled like a dream. In the 80s and 90s the Royal Welsh week always marked the start of lamb marketing for us, we’d sell a couple off their mothers the week before at about 43kg and wean the rest after coming back.

so isn’t this progress? Aren’t we making life a lot more complicated than we need to? Good Texel on a good mule, creep the early ones, don’t bother with the later ones. Job done.

Mules aren't uncomplicated though, you either have to buy them from a sensible source or you have to keep the necessary breeds to produce them yourself.
Which isn't any less complicated than breeding anything else.
Plus with the decline in upland sheep numbers the mules just aren't there to supply everyone, which is why many folks have no choice but to look at other options.

I sold a mid March born Hampshire sired pet lamb this week which was 61kg.
We'll have unfed twins on their mothers that will be 50kg by now and in the same field there's a Roussin single out of a Hamp x hogg that will be high 40s by now.
How much heavier would they be if they had progressive Texel blood on board?

 

[Jimdog1]

Mules aren't uncomplicated though, you either have to buy them from a sensible source or you have to keep the necessary breeds to produce them yourself.
Which isn't any less complicated than breeding anything else.
Plus with the decline in upland sheep numbers the mules just aren't there to supply everyone, which is why many folks have no choice but to look at other options.

I sold a mid March born Hampshire sired pet lamb this week which was 61kg.
We'll have unfed twins on their mothers that will be 50kg by now and in the same field there's a Roussin single out of a Hamp x hogg that will be high 40s by now.
How much heavier would they be if they had progressive Texel blood on board?

Not sure about the shortage of mules bit. At the gimmer lamb sales there seems to be plenty - I expected a huge price hike Last year what with higher finished lamb prices and lots of bb loan money around but lambs were not much dearer imo. Mules are not fashionable amongst the "in" set but they are probably the most numerous commercial ewe in the country. Can't be all bad.

 

[M-J-G]

Not sure about the shortage of mules bit. At the gimmer lamb sales there seems to be plenty - I expected a huge price hike Last year what with higher finished lamb prices and lots of bb loan money around but lambs were not much dearer imo. Mules are not fashionable amongst the "in" set but they are probably the most numerous commercial ewe in the country. Can't be all bad.

I don't suggest they are all bad, I know folks who get on great with mules.

Numbers wise I don't mean there aren't enough to go round, I was more along the lines of how many used to be offered for sale vs how many there are now.

Not many mule ewe lambs are sent for slaughter yet more alternatives are being used, this along with mule lamb Market days being a fraction of what they used to be 20 years ago would suggest a decline in numbers, which I would say is a result of a decline in hill ewe numbers.

I'd guess if every farm who used to have mules went back to using them in the same numbers the hill ewe population wouldn't be able to supply the demand.

 

[Jimdog1]

I don't suggest they are all bad, I know folks who get on great with mules.

Numbers wise I don't mean there aren't enough to go round, I was more along the lines of how many used to be offered for sale vs how many there are now.

Not many mule ewe lambs are sent for slaughter yet more alternatives are being used, this along with mule lamb Market days being a fraction of what they used to be 20 years ago would suggest a decline in numbers, which I would say is a result of a decline in hill ewe numbers.

I'd guess if every farm who used to have mules went back to using them in the same numbers the hill ewe population wouldn't be able to supply the demand.

I think if the gimmer lamb price was higher then more would miraculously appear! A lot of work goes in to presenting those lambs and many producing them have switched to fat/store lamb production where they see a better return for less effort. I take my hat off to those who are recording and breeding there own replacement ewes - I am probably a bit lazy and take the relatively easy option of buying mules and dealing with the negative points of such a system.

 

[M-J-G]

I think if the gimmer lamb price was higher then more would miraculously appear! A lot of work goes in to presenting those lambs and many producing them have switched to fat/store lamb production where they see a better return for less effort. I take my hat off to those who are recording and breeding there own replacement ewes - I am probably a bit lazy and take the relatively easy option of buying mules and dealing with the negative points of such a system.

They might appear in the short term as there would be a surge in numbers going to a BFL as opposed to breeding hill breeds pure, but that in the long term leads to even less hill ewes.

If people are honest every system has negative points, nobody can tell you that you're wrong to have mules, if they're doing you're job that's great

 

[Giles1]

Why do we need bigger finished lambs? As far back as the late 70's dwt spec was 17 -22kg for the best p/kg weight wise as I remember. I think it may be 18-22.5 now. This suggests progress should be faster growth and better conformation,not bigger weights. I don't doubt there is a limited market for big weight butchers lambs, as long as we don't all go for it. I could be wrong, haven't been out for a while and the memory may well be faulty!

 

[Estate fencing.]

Why do we need bigger finished lambs? As far back as the late 70's dwt spec was 17 -22kg for the best p/kg weight wise as I remember. I think it may be 18-22.5 now. This suggests progress should be faster growth and better conformation,not bigger weights. I don't doubt there is a limited market for big weight butchers lambs, as long as we don't all go for it. I could be wrong, haven't been out for a while and the memory may well be faulty!

Biggest profit in lambs for the last couple of years are ones that grow at 1kg /week and are 50kg in March/April at 12 months. So maybe we should slow growth to really progress. Maybe add a bit of welsh into the texels.

 

[tr250]

Biggest profit in lambs for the last couple of years are ones that grow at 1kg /week and are 50kg in March/April at 12 months. So maybe we should slow growth to really progress. Maybe add a bit of welsh into the texels.

Maybe the most price per head but I’m yet to be convinced about the most profitable. Very easy to forget about the sheparding worming fly control the few that have died and that’s without the extra land and grass use

 

[MDL POWERUP]

Biggest profit in lambs for the last couple of years are ones that grow at 1kg /week and are 50kg in March/April at 12 months. So maybe we should slow growth to really progress. Maybe add a bit of welsh into the texels.

Don't add Welsh the added profit will be outweighed by the extra cost of prison type fencing to keep them in.

 

[Ysgythan]

Don't add Welsh the added profit will be outweighed by the extra cost of prison type fencing to keep them in.

there’s plenty of Cheviot in some as it is…

 

[Aspiring Peasants]

I think a lot of people who used to run all mules are now just keeping a smaller number of mules to cross with the Texel and keep the gimmers. The Texe/Mule is hard to beat as a maternal ewe which can produce a higher value lamb

 

[Aspiring Peasants]

Biggest profit in lambs for the last couple of years are ones that grow at 1kg /week and are 50kg in March/April at 12 months. So maybe we should slow growth to really progress. Maybe add a bit of welsh into the texels.

That's why I'm happy when I see people who seem to think the most important thing about sheep farming is how soon you can get rid of the lambs.

Unless they've been on creep and get away really early they generally hit the market when prices are lowest and once they're gone they're gone so the supply is less later on and the price likely to be better.

I don't know anything about Welsh for adding to Texels. You need a Beltex if you want to market lambs (not just sell them) later Imho

 

[Estate fencing.]

That's why I'm happy when I see people who seem to think the most important thing about sheep farming is how soon you can get rid of the lambs.

Unless they've been on creep and get away really early they generally hit the market when prices are lowest and once they're gone they're gone so the supply is less later on and the price likely to be better.

I don't know anything about Welsh for adding to Texels. You need a Beltex if you want to market lambs (not just sell them) later Imho

It was a bit tongue and check about the welsh. But here is a welsh cross texel and the lamb is her beltex cross. It will be a fantastic Hogg in April.

And as you can see on some brilliant land, not!

 

[neilo]

That's why I'm happy when I see people who seem to think the most important thing about sheep farming is how soon you can get rid of the lambs.

Unless they've been on creep and get away really early they generally hit the market when prices are lowest and once they're gone they're gone so the supply is less later on and the price likely to be better.

I don't know anything about Welsh for adding to Texels. You need a Beltex if you want to market lambs (not just sell them) later Imho

All the number crunchers repeatedly come up with figures to say that days to slaughter is the most important factor for profitability in sheep. Of course, getting lambs away sooner does mean that you can carry more ewes, so selling more lambs, or finish some bought in stores on the same ground.

I don’t necessarily agree, as it will depend on whether your costs are lower, and stocking rate higher, through growing them more slowly, but in general it is true. The price achieved for the lamb is only one factor affecting enterprise profitability, and certainly not the biggest one if you cost properly.

 

[bobajob]

Nothing wrong with the idea.
Where it falls apart though is the buying of the mules bit, try to buy them that will last until old age....
A lot of mules are fed too much for the sales and don't last the distance.

Modern mules off these crossing types are getting too big.

Also diseases like opa are quite prevelant in blackies and coming down into the mule flocks now (although nobody seems to talk about it)

 

[CopperBeech]

Agreed.

I don’t quite subscribe to the whole days to slaughter being the greatest KPI. Mainly because of our very cheap and plentiful supply of winter finishing ground, running a lamb on and selling it in the Christmas to March period does get you a good return. But doing that with March born lambs ? We’ve lambed in May to June for a lot of years for this reason, and lambed a lot of ewe lambs.

But mature ewes lambed in April, I’d expect those lambs gone by Christmas, and their place allows me to run more ewes cheaper, and to replace one of my sold lambs with two store lambs to put on that cheap keep abs finish and sell in jan / feb / March for mega money.

Can’t quite get my head round running a big ewe to produce one lamb to run on until it’s 12 years old and hoping I’ll get £150 for it. You lads mustn’t worry about cash flow

 

[CopperBeech]

Nothing wrong with the idea.
Where it falls apart though is the buying of the mules bit, try to buy them that will last until old age....
A lot of mules are fed too much for the sales and don't last the distance.

Modern mules off these crossing types are getting too big.

Also diseases like opa are quite prevelant in blackies and coming down into the mule flocks now (although nobody seems to talk about it)

That’s cos most sheep farmers wouldn’t know what an iceberg disease was if they crashed into it in their Sheepy titanic. The level of knowledge amongst a lot of sheep farmers about a lot of sheep stuff (icebergs, work resistance, genetics, etc ) is laughable