Rearing calves on grass

[onesiedale]

if you take, as a basic rule, you get what you pay for, and work around that ! We don't turn calves out till 12 weeks, always use cydectin injectable, covers all worm issues for 180 days, always fly them. For ease of handling, we do feed conc all through, 1/2 kilo, cheap insurance to calve at 23 months. Type of pasture is important, the better the grass, the better the gain. Vaccination for pneumonia etc, haven't for years, as long as your feeding to weaning, and environment is correct, you really shouldn't need them.

Last year, for the first time ever, we managed avoid worming altogether. The calves never grazed a cell a second time within 60 days. ?
Another input cost gone. And a healthier soil biome ?. What's not to like?
(Sorry for sounding like @Kiwi Pete - but this stuff does get me excited!)

 

[onesiedale]

Thanks Pete, aiming for minimal inputs and managing grazing best I can. Have done a bit of strip grazing and loose rotational before but nothing as focused as daily moves. Was thinking of twice weekly shifts and a movable drinker (plastic sheep trough & a couple of lengths of blue pipe). Realise I am highly unlikely to be stocked just right due to all the variables. Would 10 x 3month old sound like a sensible starting point?

At the risk of sounding prescriptive and text book like, we'll talk round figures for a quick budget;

Say your area is 5 acres (2 Ha) you'll grow 7 tonnes dm/ha, so that's 14t dm total
Your calves will come in at 100kg, leave at 250kg so over 200 days that's 0.75/day lwg
Average weight will be 175kg, therefore average demand will be 5.25 kg dm.
14,000kg ÷ 5.25 = 2666 livestock days
2666 ÷200days = 13.333 animals (on 5 acres)
You said 10 as a starting point for 4 acres.
I think we've arrived at pretty much the same figure! ??

 

[Jaffa Cakes]

At the risk of sounding prescriptive and text book like, we'll talk round figures for a quick budget;

Say your area is 5 acres (2 Ha) you'll grow 7 tonnes dm/ha, so that's 14t dm total
Your calves will come in at 100kg, leave at 250kg so over 200 days that's 0.75/day lwg
Average weight will be 175kg, therefore average demand will be 5.25 kg dm.
14,000kg ÷ 5.25 = 2666 livestock days
2666 ÷200days = 13.333 animals (on 5 acres)
You said 10 as a starting point for 4 acres.
I think we've arrived at pretty much the same figure! ??

At least I'm in the right ballpark then! Good to see the figures behind it. Am i likely to be under stocked in the spring and run out of grass in the autumn though? I was reckoning on about 130-150kg gain if it went well. Should hopefully pay for the basic kit in year 1 and leave a bit of profit. ?this time next year Rodney . . . Haha

 

[onesiedale]

At least I'm in the right ballpark then! Good to see the figures behind it. Am i likely to be under stocked in the spring and run out of grass in the autumn though? I was reckoning on about 130-150kg gain if it went well. Should hopefully pay for the basic kit in year 1 and leave a bit of profit. ?this time next year Rodney . . . Haha

Best way to find out if your numbers are right is . . .

 

[Jaffa Cakes]

Yes. Thanks guys for the informative and positive responses.

 

[Kiwi Pete]

Thanks Pete, aiming for minimal inputs and managing grazing best I can. Have done a bit of strip grazing and loose rotational before but nothing as focused as daily moves. Was thinking of twice weekly shifts and a movable drinker (plastic sheep trough & a couple of lengths of blue pipe). Realise I am highly unlikely to be stocked just right due to all the variables. Would 10 x 3month old sound like a sensible starting point?

That's what both my wife and I arrived at, maybe start with 10 and then adjust from there - the main "problem" is that your calves will be eating very little while your grass is away like a bottle-rocket in the spring, and then they'll eat progressively more and more as they grow.
Keeping your feed in a vegetative stage is the big challenge.

When I was rearing my own as a sideline project, I used to grab a tractor to unload my pallet of feeders/milkpowder etc, and I'd mow the entire grazing area at that point. It helped to keep up with it.

Then I worked out it was much better to buy a couple of "headache cows" from my boss and use them as toppers/automated calf feeding machines, at that time their purchase price was the equivalent of 4.5bags of milk powder.
You know, cows unfit for milking purposes, maybe a bit of a crook udder or feet. Perfect old girls for attaching a few calves to.

 

[The Ruminant]

At the risk of sounding prescriptive and text book like, we'll talk round figures for a quick budget;

Say your area is 5 acres (2 Ha) you'll grow 7 tonnes dm/ha, so that's 14t dm total
Your calves will come in at 100kg, leave at 250kg so over 200 days that's 0.75/day lwg
Average weight will be 175kg, therefore average demand will be 5.25 kg dm.
14,000kg ÷ 5.25 = 2666 livestock days
2666 ÷200days = 13.333 animals (on 5 acres)
You said 10 as a starting point for 4 acres.
I think we've arrived at pretty much the same figure! ??

I can’t fault the maths, but...... it depends on what the grassland and underlying soil is like.

I’ve access to 10 acres of land that is very (very) droughty and has been grazed by horses for years and years and years.... except for the odd time a haycrop was taken. I put 12 small dairy calves on there in the spring, cell grazed it once which took nearly a month and at the end of the month there wasn’t enough regrowth for them to go back to the beginning! I had to move them somewhere else!

But for normal p/p I’d agree entirely with your calculations

 

[onesiedale]

I can’t fault the maths, but...... it depends on what the grassland and underlying soil is like.

I’ve access to 10 acres of land that is very (very) droughty and has been grazed by horses for years and years and years.... except for the odd time a haycrop was taken. I put 12 small dairy calves on there in the spring, cell grazed it once which took nearly a month and at the end of the month there wasn’t enough regrowth for them to go back to the beginning! I had to move them somewhere else!

But for normal p/p I’d agree entirely with your calculations

But next year you'll get 3 rounds out of it hopefully. Providing there's no horses back in the meantime

 

[Jaffa Cakes]

As Pete has highlighted, keeping up with the grass in early spring could be a challenge. It's too steep to mow and stock has to be trailered there or away. Will need to give it some thought . . .

 

[clod hopper]

Best way is to graze the calves moved each day don't force them to graze down too hard. Use older animals to graze the cell harder next round

 

[Kiwi Pete]

Best way is to graze the calves moved each day don't force them to graze down too hard. Use older animals to graze the cell harder next round

Yes, or just let it keep coming up, keep nipping the top off it.

 

[clod hopper]

Yes, or just let it keep coming up, keep nipping the top off it.

So, in your veiw Pete, you make more soil by treading in dry matter than eating the dry matter and making manure

 

[clod hopper]

So, in your veiw Pete, you make more soil by treading in dry matter than eating the dry matter and making manure

This is were I get conflicted/confused. In my mind turning feed/roughage in to manure/urine to produce more feed as quickly as possible produces more milk/meat and fertilizer for the soil which improves the soil, grows the soil.

 

[Kiwi Pete]

So, in your veiw Pete, you make more soil by treading in dry matter than eating the dry matter and making manure

Whatever creates the potential for the highest rate of photosynthesis - this is (usually) the result of leaving the leaf area as large as possible (eat the tips but not the whole plant) as well as making sure the growing points at the base receive full sunlight post-grazing (which is half the reason for the trampling, the other part is of course to put litter down).

Think of the soil as a ruminant, it helps. If you only feed the cow rocket fuel, (sugar) then the microbes adjust.
If you only feed her rough feed (hay) then the microbes adjust too.

When you're looking to feed soil, ideally some food should come as sugar (root exudates, liquid Carbon, whatever) and some should come as hay (litter, dead spiders, arthropods, protists).

Manure/urine is another food source, of course, but it shouldn't be the only part of the diet because these only really feed a small part of the soil foodweb - the bulk is from root exudates and litter sources.

You nearly always get a better financial return on what you leave behind than what you feed through the animal, which is part of the reason NZ AG is so broken - the emphasis is in the wrong area and we have shallow enough soils, especially the ones only created by native bush and leaf litter! In many cases the topsoil around here is only cm thick over the clay subsoil, and much of the topsoil is the result of early pastoral farming systems - which is being neatly undone by later farming systems.

 

[Kiwi Pete]

This is were I get conflicted/confused. In my mind turning feed/roughage in to manure/urine to produce more feed as quickly as possible produces more milk/meat and fertilizer for the soil which improves the soil, grows the soil.

Importing it onto your land generally brings broad benefits to the biome, even if "substitution" is the immediate result. We're feeding hay down here so that the sheep will leave more grass behind them, which enables a slower round/higher density which in turn controls the spread of manure more evenly.

Remember that the farm is meant to be a solar business, not a fossil-powered one, and you don't go far wrong

 

[clod hopper]

Importing it onto your land generally brings broad benefits to the biome, even if "substitution" is the immediate result. We're feeding hay down here so that the sheep will leave more grass behind them, which enables a slower round/higher density which in turn controls the spread of manure more evenly.

Remember that the farm is meant to be a solar business, not a fossil-powered one, and you don't go far wrong

Thanks, I understand more now.

 

[som farmer]

Importing it onto your land generally brings broad benefits to the biome, even if "substitution" is the immediate result. We're feeding hay down here so that the sheep will leave more grass behind them, which enables a slower round/higher density which in turn controls the spread of manure more evenly.

Remember that the farm is meant to be a solar business, not a fossil-powered one, and you don't go far wrong

organic farming swops sprays, for diesel, continuous ploughing, probably negates much of the 'good' rotation, by killing off the 'bugs' in the soil .

 

[Kiwi Pete]

organic farming swops sprays, for diesel, continuous ploughing, probably negates much of the 'good' rotation, by killing off the 'bugs' in the soil .

It can, doesn't mean it has to.
You can get by pretty well with killing nothing at all if you make the choices

 

[som farmer]

It can, doesn't mean it has to.
You can get by pretty well with killing nothing at all if you make the choices

perhaps, if I said this, there are two types of organic farmers, ones in for the money, and the other, for principle behind organic farming. Would that complement your quote !

 

[Kiwi Pete]

perhaps, if I said this, there are two types of organic farmers, ones in for the money, and the other, for principle behind organic farming. Would that complement your quote !

There's the big difference between rule-based and principle-based decisionmaking

If you ever get the chance, "The Secret Life of Plants" and "The Secret Life of Soil" are eye-opening.
What if all we see are just various manifestations of "life"... and by killing one thing on purpose, we set all "life" back a peg?
There is huge economy in not setting out to 'command and control' nature, because generally our troubles come from not enough life on our land, too fussy perhaps?