Rural Crime, Bodycams, And What You Can / Should Actually Do When Faced With A Criminal.

[teslacoils]

Just after a little advice really. And not "give em half an hour with me in that soundproofed shipping container" advice.

Recently it seems that, despite the best intentions of the bobbies on the beat, that we can catch criminals better than they can. I was chasing a criminal who was intercepted by plod who couldn't enter into a high speed persuit due to lack of training. Similarly, when you come across theft or dumping, while the advice is "ring 999" the reality is that we are likely to be in a better place to catch them ourselves.

A focus on evidence gathering, then passing this on, just to get a crime number seems pointless. We know most crime is done by a few people. So how do you actively, and legally, apprehend a person to stop a crime?

Have any of you performed a citizen's arrest? What is reasonable force? What is it reasonable, as a farmer, to carry in your car to defend yourself?

I think we are deliberately not given information like this and would be very interested to know, maybe your ex cps or ex police, what we can actually do, and how best to protect ourselves from getting in to trouble. Because these criminals know what they are doing and I think we deserve to know too.

Please, no plod-bashing or vigilante plans. Let's keep it factual and practical. Because if we can't help ourselves noone else will.

 

[Forkdriver]

Reasonable applied to unreasonable people. Matters escalate quickly. I am an arrant coward and not a fighter, apart from being old and slow.
I think it is down to better security, CCTV and insurance.

 

[Poorbuthappy]

Not watched it but this guy has popped up on my YouTube feed lately. Presume he's genuine?

 

[Poorbuthappy]

Another 1 relevant to this thread

 

[Kidds]

What is it reasonable, as a farmer, to carry in your car to defend yourself?

Anything is reasonable, very little is legal.
I have guns I can legally carry around in my car but if I ever suggested they were to defend myself they'd be taken off me very quick. (and I don't want to think I might need to use guns to defend myself anyway).
Big torches and/or rolled up magazines are as good as anything, not getting in the situation in the first place is a great deal better.

 

[wrenbird]

I’m not sure if I am faced with a scallywag with a knife, that I am going to be able to roll me Woman’s Weekly up fast enough to give him a belt round the ear hole with it.

 

[Wurzeetoo]

I can’t offer much to this only to warn I was arrested for what the police claimed was excessive force during self defence. The incident luckily was on cctv and the police agreed he went for me out of nowhere and had a history of doing the same. He had my hand print bruised on his neck for a few weeks which is what they deemed excessive although they also agreed my hand was open at all times and he could have backed away in effect he throttled himself. Funnily enough when I realised he wasn’t going to back off and was foaming at the mouth tapping his head on the wall in an attempt to make him have a nap was completely acceptable apparently. This dragged on for two or three weeks until I was told there there wasn’t going to be any action for the matter but would I be interested in restorative justice by meeting with the guy and shaking hands which I declined. I was suspended from work while this was going on, which leads me to say in the heat of the moment I would absolutely do the same however make sure it’s on camera and don’t expect to be treated as the innocent victim if you do. The laws an ass and from experience there’s more protection for the morons than the law abiding working man

 

[7610 super q]

Skip to the end, if you don't want to waste time.....

 

[Dry Rot]

I've thought about this one in the light of some personal experiences.

I see that A&E staff are to be given the option of wearing body cams even though there is CCTV in their ambulances. Apparently, when switched on, these devices issue a verbal warning that the camera is in operation for the staff's and patients' own safety and the footage may be presented in court. Apparently, this does have a calming effect.

Not sure if the warning is a legal requirement but if threatening behaviour is anticipated, it seems sensible to wear a body-cam under a jacket. The camera can be switched on and the jacket opened very easily. These cameras are cheap enough these days.

Other than that, I would not personally participate in any aggressive behaviour, tempting though it may be! These days I'd probably warn that the aggressor could cause me have a heart attack which could render him answerable to a charge of murder! But I would always, if possible, act through third parties (police, authorities, etc) and be aware of how evidence and witnesses might be presented in court.

 

[B R C]

My view is its just not worth it, gather as much evidence as possible and keep out of harms way. My best man is a consultant psychiatrist and you really don’t who/what you are dealing with. Your family won’t thank you for getting stabbed or put in a coma for £50 of diesel. I get the hero award for filling the dishwasher instead....

 

[kfpben]

Farmer I know recently saw some lads coursing on the farm.
Off he sped in his pickup to confront them, he got out looking raging and shouted ‘HOW DARE YOU COME HARE COURSING ON MY FARM.... without inviting me.’ Farmer has a brief chat with them, tells them they have nice dogs and all’s good.

Situation diffused, no wild chasing in vehicles, no wheel marks all over the crops, no bad blood, nothing pinched and taken back to the nearest caravan park. Everyone wins unless you’re a hare but then the law’s a farce anyway.

 

[Pad123]

Petition: Make it legal to carry non-lethal self defence weapons

In the UK, it is illegal to carry non-lethal self defence weapons such as Pepper Spray. I want this to be made legal if used only in the action of self-defence.

petition.parliament.uk

Might be worth a look!

 

[flowerpot]

A neighbour was running along the lane when she came across 2 men stealing our double field gates and putting them in their vehicle. She stopped and said something and the reply was "what are you going to do about it?" Well there was nothing she could do, had she even tried to take their registration number it could quite quickly have turned nasty so she took the sensible course and carried on.

We now paint new gates with some black gates, having had too many stolen over the years. But no, I think that for whatever is being stolen, it isn't worth the physical risk. People have been killed and injured trying to stop thieves.

 

[scottrac]

20 odd years ago my mates mum was walking her dog at our local woods (when i lived in cheshire)
no one knows what happened but the dog came home and alerted my mate,he knew where she had gone so went down and the dog lead him to her body (smacked over the head with something,handbag still by her side so not robbery.
knowing her she was the type that if she saw anyone up to no good she would of said something to them so everyone presumes thats what happened.
It's just not worth it,you never know if they are tooled up.

 

[steveR]

th a damn

Petition: Make it legal to carry non-lethal self defence weapons

In the UK, it is illegal to carry non-lethal self defence weapons such as Pepper Spray. I want this to be made legal if used only in the action of self-defence.

petition.parliament.uk

Might be worth a look!

I seem to recall some anti perspirant or hair spray or similiar type grooming product, worked.

Mind the local plod was telling me that the pepper spray they get issued is u/s and does not work worth a damn!! He prefers his bad ass dog and a baton.

The taser thing is the same I believe, as it has been de-tuned so as to be less harmful to the recipient, but this leads to events where it doesn't work when needed. Seen that on the telly shows here, not like the american ones where a full zap stops the offender up short!

 

[manhill]

The pendulum has swung too far, wonder how this kind of crime would be handled in redneck counties of the USA.

 

[flowerpot]

I think the rules are different in the USA.

 

[Kidds]

20 odd years ago my mates mum was walking her dog at our local woods (when i lived in cheshire)
no one knows what happened but the dog came home and alerted my mate,he knew where she had gone so went down and the dog lead him to her body (smacked over the head with something,handbag still by her side so not robbery.
knowing her she was the type that if she saw anyone up to no good she would of said something to them so everyone presumes thats what happened.
It's just not worth it,you never know if they are tooled up.

I remember that and always think of her when I go past the end of the lane.

 

[scottrac]

I remember that and always think of her when I go past the end of the lane.

yeah,really bad,she was my mums best mate.

 

[Devil's advocate]

Walkers have started filming me, when I point out that they are not on a footpath & tresspassing.