Sheep turnover crate recommendation?

[Paddington]

We bought a very secondhand old Ironworks one from someone who kept it in a shed in a small field. No vehicle access of course, we had to manhandle it out of the shed along a path, then up a short hill before lifting it onto a trailer. Have since fitted removable castors to it for moving about and filled in the headrest (where horns get caught) and the side with bars (where legs get caught). The drop gates drop when least expected, usually on your fingers/arm and I've had several kicks from upturned sheep. The main problem we find is that it is a two man job to use it as the sheep need to be pushed forward inside the entry gate before the grab arms are between the ewes legs as the rear grab arm is fixed. Modified this with a drop down seat behind the entry gate. Last year OH did foot trimming by herself, over several evenings with the sheep standing. The sheep were calm, she wasn't stressed and the neighbours didn't have to listen to me swearing. Think the later crates are vastly improved.

 

[andybk]

We bought a very secondhand old Ironworks one from someone who kept it in a shed in a small field. No vehicle access of course, we had to manhandle it out of the shed along a path, then up a short hill before lifting it onto a trailer. Have since fitted removable castors to it for moving about and filled in the headrest (where horns get caught) and the side with bars (where legs get caught). The drop gates drop when least expected, usually on your fingers/arm and I've had several kicks from upturned sheep. The main problem we find is that it is a two man job to use it as the sheep need to be pushed forward inside the entry gate before the grab arms are between the ewes legs as the rear grab arm is fixed. Modified this with a drop down seat behind the entry gate. Last year OH did foot trimming by herself, over several evenings with the sheep standing. The sheep were calm, she wasn't stressed and the neighbours didn't have to listen to me swearing. Think the later crates are vastly improved.

yea the newer ones are a world away from the originals , far easier on the back ,
interested in that IAE one for crutching , how much of a faf is it to use ? i usually have 3 in a penned end of wide race but they tend to move around a lot .

 

[shumungus]

Had a sheep demo on farm here one day attended by the great and the good in the sheep world over here, it was hosted by Jennifer Duncan a professor from Liverpool university who had studied and written extensively on lameness in sheep.

Latest research findings shared at sheep lameness meeting

More than 70 veterinary surgeons, farmers, academics, industry representatives and students met at the School of Veterinary Science’s Leahurst campus on Saturday, 31 October to learn about new University of Liverpool research findings which will help to prevent and treat Contagious Ovine Digital...

news.liverpool.ac.uk

She said that the two main culprits for lameness in sheep were breeding and too much trimming. So forget the turnover crate get culling and buy footvax.

 

[Jonp]

I modified my ironworks crate so the sheep couldn't reverse out from the grab arms.

 

[Paddington]

I modified my ironworks crate so the sheep couldn't reverse out from the grab arms.
View attachment 1041947

Looks more professional than the yard broom up their bum.

 

[Jonp]

Looks more professional than the yard broom up their bum.

Or stood in the race pushing them in with your boot. The crate seemed to be designed for very long sheep! Shorn skinny small welshies were a particular challenge to grab and you needed some muscle to turn over a big ram. Sold mine years ago and don't routinely trim anymore. Now into year three of a footrot codd free flock.

 

[Paddington]

Can anyone remember the vet who used to post on here who would throw his toys out the pram when routine trimming was mentioned ?

 

[JockCroft]

I modified my ironworks crate so the sheep couldn't reverse out from the grab arms.
View attachment 1041947

Thanks for that idea. Afternoon in the workshop, I think.

 

[JockCroft]

Had a sheep demo on farm here one day attended by the great and the good in the sheep world over here, it was hosted by Jennifer Duncan a professor from Liverpool university who had studied and written extensively on lameness in sheep.

Latest research findings shared at sheep lameness meeting

More than 70 veterinary surgeons, farmers, academics, industry representatives and students met at the School of Veterinary Science’s Leahurst campus on Saturday, 31 October to learn about new University of Liverpool research findings which will help to prevent and treat Contagious Ovine Digital...

news.liverpool.ac.uk

She said that the two main culprits for lameness in sheep were breeding and too much trimming. So forget the turnover crate get culling and buy footvax.

Great in theory, different in practice.
In my youth my father was very envious of a neighbour who moved his sheep each week about a mile on tarred road, never had foot problems. Ours of same breeding, on similar land, well each summer regular foot bathing and trimming.
Now 50 years later,(different breeding) have to, at least twice year trim feet on a fair percentage, due to overgrown sidewall of hoof. This holds soil and grass which would otherwise lead to foot rot. The only hard road they walk on is crossing 3 yards of tar.
One change (though I should touch wood), we don't have so much problems with "Scald/ Scad" on lambs, where if a bit open between the toes abrasion from grass causes irritation.

 

[Jonp]

Great in theory, different in practice.
In my youth my father was very envious of a neighbour who moved his sheep each week about a mile on tarred road, never had foot problems. Ours of same breeding, on similar land, well each summer regular foot bathing and trimming.
Now 50 years later,(different breeding) have to, at least twice year trim feet on a fair percentage, due to overgrown sidewall of hoof. This holds soil and grass which would otherwise lead to foot rot. The only hard road they walk on is crossing 3 yards of tar.
One change (though I should touch wood), we don't have so much problems with "Scald/ Scad" on lambs, where if a bit open between the toes abrasion from grass causes irritation.

That's what I thought for years, however I spent one year, on my closed flock, treating all cases of footrot with golden hoof and got to a point where I eliminated the problem. I rarely trim feet now and if I see a sheep limping I grip it, smell test it and blue spray it. Usually the problem is a lump of dried soil between their claws or a thorn. If the horn is turned over I will carefully trim it.
If when I had footrot years ago and had culled culprits I would have very few sheep left (and a constant problem) so treating the flock to eliminate the bacteria being left in the fields seems the cheaper option....just got to be determined and do the work. No codd or scald either now.

 

[neilo]

Can anyone remember the vet who used to post on here who would throw his toys out the pram when routine trimming was mentioned ?

'bovine'. Sadly missed but probably has lower blood pressure now.

 

[JockCroft]

That's what I thought for years, however I spent one year, on my closed flock, treating all cases of footrot with golden hoof and got to a point where I eliminated the problem. I rarely trim feet now and if I see a sheep limping I grip it, smell test it and blue spray it. Usually the problem is a lump of dried soil between their claws or a thorn. If the horn is turned over I will carefully trim it.
If when I had footrot years ago and had culled culprits I would have very few sheep left (and a constant problem) so treating the flock to eliminate the bacteria being left in the fields seems the cheaper option....just got to be determined and do the work. No codd or scald either now.

Glad someone agrees. My flock started 5 years ago with a mixture of ages and loads of previous owners problems, hesitate to say neglect. Catching and turning in pen is darned hard work and not so easy to make proper job of hind feet but with time and regular footbathing was making a big improvement. However after getting the turnover crate and putting all through it last September I was shocked how few, even gimmers need overgrowth trimmed.
Only a handfull back in crate before tups went out and only 4 needing winter spring treatment.
So far this summer not been much but bath when dosing next week.
Been careful selecting Tups as an awful lot of pedigree seem very open in the hoof. Is this common in other areas?

 

[primmiemoo]

Glad someone agrees. My flock started 5 years ago with a mixture of ages and loads of previous owners problems, hesitate to say neglect. Catching and turning in pen is darned hard work and not so easy to make proper job of hind feet but with time and regular footbathing was making a big improvement. However after getting the turnover crate and putting all through it last September I was shocked how few, even gimmers need overgrowth trimmed.
Only a handfull back in crate before tups went out and only 4 needing winter spring treatment.
So far this summer not been much but bath when dosing next week.
Been careful selecting Tups as an awful lot of pedigree seem very open in the hoof. Is this common in other areas?

Poor foot conformation does seem to be low on the list of traits to breed out within some breeds. Interdigital growths, etc, continue to be normalised. Using a turnover doesn't mean it's only for hoof maintenance. It's also useful to note foot conformation when selecting breeding stock.

 

[rancher]

Or stood in the race pushing them in with your boot. The crate seemed to be designed for very long sheep! Shorn skinny small welshies were a particular challenge to grab and you needed some muscle to turn over a big ram. Sold mine years ago and don't routinely trim anymore. Now into year three of a footrot codd free flock.

Horrible yokes those roll over crates, I gave mine away finally when the nettles nearly had it disappeared in the ditch.
It had nothing done

 

[Bury the Trash]

when i was a much younger we would do about 400 in a day around other daily jobs.

using older WM iron works crate 2 men, get ewes in then one pushing up the race the other turning over then one doing front feet one doing rear ones. swop around half time.

My own flock ( particularly on Re - establishment in Autumn 2001) was based on sheep that haven't been trimmed since , not one. any odd one that was lame was culled as soon as it could travel to the abattoir. anything remotely suspicious not bred replacements from.



Its worth repeating that the work in this Country that @ Tim white and others do with improving sheep / selecting good 'fit for purpose genetics' is excellent and so good for the industry.

Happy Days .

 

[Bury the Trash]

'bovine'. Sadly missed but probably has lower blood pressure now.

Yes He was good for the livestock section of the Forum.;

Quote ;

Sheep foot pad

I have a race which the sheep go through back and forth at their leisure to reach their Crystalyx block. I am looking for a footpad to sit inside the race which measures 282cm x 66cm. So far I've only seen 2 which would 'fit', one is 180cm x 90cm and the other is longer but only 47cm wide. If I...

thefarmingforum.co.uk

 

[Al R]

Yes He was good for the livestock section of the Forum.;

Quote ;

Sheep foot pad

I have a race which the sheep go through back and forth at their leisure to reach their Crystalyx block. I am looking for a footpad to sit inside the race which measures 282cm x 66cm. So far I've only seen 2 which would 'fit', one is 180cm x 90cm and the other is longer but only 47cm wide. If I...

thefarmingforum.co.uk

Footpads/mats are brilliant for young lambs circa 4 weeks old to stop scald or on outlaying blocks of land.
What was often the problem/argument starters was that people with day to day life experience would say something worked and he would get in a poody saying it was impossible to have worked etc.. like many advisors they often don’t have proper first hand experience.
I would like to add that even though we rarely agreed on something he did have very good knowledge on some things.

 

[Bury the Trash]

Footpads/mats are brilliant for young lambs circa 4 weeks old to stop scald or on outlaying blocks of land.
What was often the problem/argument starters was that people with day to day life experience would say something worked and he would get in a poody saying it was impossible to have worked etc.. like many advisors they often don’t have proper first hand experience.
I would like to add that even though we rarely agreed on something he did have very good knowledge on some things.

Yes fair enough.

Scald is one thing and if you have problems they have to be dealt with....somehow..... in practice..
but imo it must be good feet are part of good breeding because else don't know what else is different here ,. ,Home bred ewes with just Rams with good genetics bought in, because in actual fact i cant remember the last time i actually trimmed a foot and rare to get even just a mild limper , which usually can be connected to / after a handling session.
Myself ive never owned a turnover crate but i still think they could be better designed like clamps or even like on those steel bars that hold the sheep or the bit their back /side is resting on were covered with 'grip mat' like some clamps are would make them more comfortable and grippier /more fit for purpose.


Also i must admit i havnt kept dorsets since aboutr 1988 , just joking

 

[Al R]

Yes fair enough.

Scald is one thing and if you have problems they have to be dealt with....somehow..... in practice..
but imo it must be good feet are part of good breeding because else don't know what else is different here ,. ,Home bred ewes with just Rams with good genetics bought in, because in actual fact i cant remember the last time i actually trimmed a foot and rare to get even just a mild limper , which usually can be connected to / after a handling session.
Myself ive never owned a turnover crate but i still think they could be better designed like clamps or even like on those steel bars that hold the sheep or the bit their back /side is resting on were covered with 'grip mat' like some clamps are would make them more comfortable and grippier /more fit for purpose.


Also i must admit i havnt kept dorsets since aboutr 1988 , just joking

I would trim under one a month on average with near 1800 ewes. The ones I do trim are usually brokers I’ve bought in. If anything homebred needs trimming it is culled once weaned and nothing retained from it. I’ve got some ewes which are 5 year old and never seen a footbath on sand land.

Fully agree with you that any sort of turnover crate should have a rubber lining like with combi clamps. Combi clamps arn’t very good for foot trimming, tidied up a ewe the other day and it wasn’t easy! I’d rather roll them on their bums, they certainly kick less!

 

[Oscar]

Rightly or wrong , ordered a Bateman , 8 week wait.
Thanks for help .