Watery mouth in outside lambs

[Andy84]

I’m getting a bit of problem in a group of fields new to me this year with watery mouth in lambs when they are a few days old. I suspect it could be to do with the number of geese that go to them (several hundred at a time) the vet suggested this could be the source of the ecoli. Can anyone recommend how to prevent this problem next year other than try to eliminate the geese? I wondered about lime then Harrow the park spread the goose droppings out a bit?

 

[Yale]

Just an outside thought,what about a good dose of lime to alter the soil ph a bit?

 

[Andy84]

Just an outside thought,what about a good dose of lime to alter the soil ph a bit?

yeah that was one of the plans!

 

[Global ovine]

If you harrow you will spread the bacteria around onto clean grass.

Liming won't change the environment enough to destroy resident bacteria. Burnt lime onto the grass will, but may damage the sheep too.

My question would be; are the ewes lambing down on the bare areas at the foot of tree trunks etc.? Reason for asking is that most Watery Mouth infections start with lambs getting a gob full of mud off the ewes teats and fleece as they poke around prior to getting at least 70 mls of colostrum into their stomach.

If dirty areas that turn muddy with birth fluids are suspected, spray those areas with Purex,, or treat with burnt lime, or fence off etc.

If lambs are slow to get their first drink, say take more than 20 mins, they have a greater chance of picking up contamination. Fast birthing breeds/strains (hence fast standing and drinking lambs) suffer less were WM bugs are present.

 

[Skintagain]

Tried lambing on somewoodchip where I used to work one year first time i had ever seen watery mouth and it was bad, had to dose every lamb as it came out.

 

[Andy84]

Not

If you harrow you will spread the bacteria around onto clean grass.

Liming won't change the environment enough to destroy resident bacteria. Burnt lime onto the grass will, but may damage the sheep too.

My question would be; are the ewes lambing down on the bare areas at the foot of tree trunks etc.? Reason for asking is that most Watery Mouth infections start with lambs getting a gob full of mud off the ewes teats and fleece as they poke around prior to getting at least 70 mls of colostrum into their stomach.

If dirty areas that turn muddy with birth fluids are suspected, spray those areas with Purex,, or treat with burnt lime, or fence off etc.

If lambs are slow to get their first drink, say take more than 20 mins, they have a greater chance of picking up contamination. Fast birthing breeds/strains (hence fast standing and drinking lambs) suffer less were WM bugs are present.

Not drastically to be honest usual mole hills but few dirty area just the geese feaces. How long would burnt like onto grass damage sheep for or could I shut the fields off for a few weeks before I put stock back on?

 

[Global ovine]

Not


Not drastically to be honest usual mole hills but few dirty area just the geese feaces. How long would burnt like onto grass damage sheep for or could I shut the fields off for a few weeks before I put stock back on?

Burnt lime would be an expensive exercise just to kill faecal borne bacteria. I would rather try to get as much cover on the fields before putting sheep in them as an attempt to reduce bare areas. Also look at your flock; are they slow birthing and therefore have lambs slow to suck?

 

[Yale]

If you harrow you will spread the bacteria around onto clean grass.

Liming won't change the environment enough to destroy resident bacteria. Burnt lime onto the grass will, but may damage the sheep too.

My question would be; are the ewes lambing down on the bare areas at the foot of tree trunks etc.? Reason for asking is that most Watery Mouth infections start with lambs getting a gob full of mud off the ewes teats and fleece as they poke around prior to getting at least 70 mls of colostrum into their stomach.

If dirty areas that turn muddy with birth fluids are suspected, spray those areas with Purex,, or treat with burnt lime, or fence off etc.

If lambs are slow to get their first drink, say take more than 20 mins, they have a greater chance of picking up contamination. Fast birthing breeds/strains (hence fast standing and drinking lambs) suffer less were WM bugs are present.

I take it you mean Pruex bacterial treatment.

I‘ve used a bit this year however it was a rushed job so gone back to ab’s for the last fifth however meaning to do research before next year and give it a proper go.

Encouraging good bacteria is the way forward,getting there is the difficult bit.

 

[Andy84]

Burnt lime would be an expensive exercise just to kill faecal borne bacteria. I would rather try to get as much cover on the fields before putting sheep in them as an attempt to reduce bare areas. Also look at your flock; are they slow birthing and therefore have lambs slow to suck?
[/QUOTE

lambing slightly later to allow more growth could be an option. To be honest I don’t know much of the flock history this is my first year taking the contract on but they are smallish, square cross ewes put to a beltex tup and have needed a fair bit of intervention if I’m honest so slow to get up and sooking could be another major issue?

 

[Andy84]

Update - looking forward to next year I’m determined to sort this problem as it’s not been disaster but just more lamb losses than I’m happy with. The things I’m looking at are
Breed - the main problem group is hill sheep tupped to aberfield tup (thought this is a cross that would be up and sooking quickly?)
Lambing time - lamb later so more grass coverage = less chance of infection? Not convinced this is the problem some of my neighbours lamb on parks so bare you. Can see the soul and don’t get the same problems I’ve had wjick makes me convinced there is something in the ground.
Grass - will airiating and lime help or re-seeding is an option. (Have to spray and sow direct not much soil depth for ploughing)
Soil - I’ve taken soil samples and put them away but I can’t see to get a straight answer from anyone that if there’s something in the ground it will show up in them?
Break crop - put into forage rape/stubble neeps for a year before back into grass
Direct treatment - I could continue to iodine navels and treat but don’t really have the manpower and don’t see the routine use of antibiotics on everything as it hits the ground as sustainable.

what are everyone’s thoughts? Any pointers are greatly appreciated!!

 

[Global ovine]

@Andy84
All you have to work out, as you live and work there, is how you can prevent newly born lambs from ingesting a mouthful of dirt prior to filling their stomachs with colostrum. Mum's colostrum has all the antibodies required if it gets to the receptors first. But obviously in some of your flock the bacteria are getting there first requiring antibiotic treatment to save them.
Its your job to sort out why this is happening. You cannot eradicate the bacteria from the soil, but you can prevent the opportunity the bacteria currently have. Some ideas have been floated without the benefit of knowing your situation.

 

[Nithsdale]

@Andy84
All you have to work out, as you live and work there, is how you can prevent newly born lambs from ingesting a mouthful of dirt prior to filling their stomachs with colostrum. Mum's colostrum has all the antibodies required if it gets to the receptors first. But obviously in some of your flock the bacteria are getting there first requiring antibiotic treatment to save them.
Its your job to sort out why this is happening. You cannot eradicate the bacteria from the soil, but you can prevent the opportunity the bacteria currently have. Some ideas have been floated without the benefit of knowing your situation.

Just to come from another angle, could it be his feed supplementation is wrong causing his ewes to have poor/not enough colostrum?...

 

[Northeastfarmer]

Just to come from another angle, could it be his feed supplementation is wrong causing his ewes to have poor/not enough colostrum?...

I thought that from the start but he hasn’t mentioned the ewes diet on the run up to lambing

 

[Global ovine]

Just to come from another angle, could it be his feed supplementation is wrong causing his ewes to have poor/not enough colostrum?...

Maybe. However an average sized lamb only needs 70 mls to get enough protection from colostrum. I would think if a twinning ewe cannot supply that amount for two lambs at birth, it certainly won't have enough milk to keep both alive for long. Remembering that milk contains ample antibodies for several days, not just for the first emptying of the udder. Very thin ewes can have very compromised volumes, but in that condition they are not commercially viable animals.

 

[Northeastfarmer]

Maybe. However an average sized lamb only needs 70 mls to get enough protection from colostrum. I would think if a twinning ewe cannot supply that amount for two lambs at birth, it certainly won't have enough milk to keep both alive for long. Remembering that milk contains ample antibodies for several days, not just for the first emptying of the udder. Very thin ewes can have very compromised volumes, but in that condition they are not commercially viable animals.

I think it’s the quality of colostrum not the volume....I would say colostrum quality isn’t as good this year as other years and I can only put it down to the very wet spring

 

[Andy84]

Sorry should have mentioned ewes were given the usual heptavac, worm, fluke and multi-vit drench 4 weeks prior to lambing then have been on 1/2kg per head 18% ewe rolls a day plus 24/7 access to Crystalix High Energy and Rumenco Lifeline blocks. I did wonder about nutrition but I wouldn’t have dared feed any more as a lot of ewes have needed a hand to lamb as it is.
Obviously it’s been a wet spring but I wouldn’t have classed the ewes as dirty or certainly not unusually so!
I’ve got the silage analysis at home that they had through the winter I will put them details when I get back to the office big nutrition is still thought to be the factor.

 

[Global ovine]

Volume and component concentrations vary between individuals. Fats and sugars vary the most depending on the level of nutrition the ewe has received. Immunoglobulins (antibodies) reflect the disease exposure the ewe has experienced over her lifetime. If she was kept in a sterile bubble her colostrum would offer no protection. But nature has a great way of protecting the young of mammalian species, hence I would be reluctant to suggest that this vital component is too short or missing.

 

[Bob the beef]

We have had more issues this year with watery mouth and joint ill. I m putting it down the ewes all lambing in close proximity to the water troughs due to the dry weather. Gone out some times and had 6/7 ewes lambing within a 30 metre circle round the troughs. I don’t iodine or AB anything unless it had to come into the shed.

Just one of those years. The problems don’t go away they just change

 

[Nithsdale]

Maybe. However an average sized lamb only needs 70 mls to get enough protection from colostrum. I would think if a twinning ewe cannot supply that amount for two lambs at birth, it certainly won't have enough milk to keep both alive for long. Remembering that milk contains ample antibodies for several days, not just for the first emptying of the udder. Very thin ewes can have very compromised volumes, but in that condition they are not commercially viable animals.

Depends the breeds/breeding. I've had plenty experience of good, healthy Mule ewes with what appears to be a good sized, full udder. But upon inspection turns out to not be milking. You only discover this after a few hours, when the lambs are still empty, of course.

 

[Global ovine]

Depends the breeds/breeding. I've had plenty experience of good, healthy Mule ewes with what appears to be a good sized, full udder. But upon inspection turns out to not be milking. You only discover this after a few hours, when the lambs are still empty, of course.

Dry udder is just one expression of past sub clinical mastitis infection that has damaged the mammary tissue and milk ducts so that a visually normal udder doesn't function in the next lactation. Affected sheep should be culled as they will not return to normal function.
Mastitis is caused by about 30 different species of bacteria and a few viruses such as MV. Prolific milk producing breeds are affected more, especially if they are low in BCS.
The main physiological risk item is the teat sphincter. If this closes well, it keeps bacteria out. Some breeds have a reputation for higher incidence of mastitis, as they allow more bacterial entry.
Drying ewes off at weaning by shutting down their intakes for a week is advisable if their udders are still in higher levels of lactation.

Such problems have been eliminated in dairy cows by "Dry cow therapy" injecting antibiotic up the teat after the last milking. However this is not practicable in a sheep flock.