- Location
- Aberdeenshire
I might be being a bit thick here but surely the number of legs makes no difference. With the same sowing rate but wider spacing the number of seeds in a row for a given length increases.
Wet conditions direct drilling option
- Thread starter Clive
- Start date
@Clive have you seen the research on 25cm spacing using reduced seed rates. The thought being lower seed rates per m2 so as not to have as much in row competition.
Ie, standard 12.5 cm rows at 200kg ha on 25 cm rows you would be looking at 100kg to have the same linear spacing along the row.
I will try and dig out the link but looks very interesting.
Ie, standard 12.5 cm rows at 200kg ha on 25 cm rows you would be looking at 100kg to have the same linear spacing along the row.
I will try and dig out the link but looks very interesting.
You are right, but given there is a higher volume going down each Coulter, so the limit is closer.
Basically back pressure issues are not far away.
Bigger delivery pipes all the way to the ground solved a similar problem on my taty planter - but it's easier to replace a pair of double openers than 24 coulters. A pressured tank is a better solution, IMO.
Cuthbert
Member
What does your df1 look like? Do you use it to put fert in potato beds?
Looks very similar to Clive's. I bought it from Guesty. Mine has a PTO driven fan, and we altered the land wheel to lift up and down independently rather than having to lift the hopper up and down to engage drive.
Used for fert placement in spuds - we have considered using it for seed and having a coulter bar on the back, but the variety of stuff we do and length of season would make it a pita.
CSG 15 - Defra, UK
sciencesearch.defra.gov.uk ›
One from Canada
https://agcrops.osu.edu/newsletter/corn-newsletter/2016-30/considering-growing-wheat-wide-rows
A couple of google docs here
It would seem wide rows are better with lower seed rates 1,000,000 seeds per acre or 2,500,000 ha
sciencesearch.defra.gov.uk ›
One from Canada
https://agcrops.osu.edu/newsletter/corn-newsletter/2016-30/considering-growing-wheat-wide-rows
A couple of google docs here
It would seem wide rows are better with lower seed rates 1,000,000 seeds per acre or 2,500,000 ha
Pebd99
Member
- Location
- Aberdeenshire
Running 140mm pipes on a df2. Can blow 250kg/ha of seed back up to 10-11k. Blowing 375kg/ha of fert drops the speed to 7.5-8k if that helps any.
Pebd99
Member
- Location
- Aberdeenshire
Twin 32 distribution heads then into y pieces before the coulters. Some say that the y pieces hold it back but I’m not sure on that.
- Location
- NSW, Newstralya
ive been completely zero till for 25 years, have always run 33cm spacing ( 3 to a metre, to fit in with our 1m row crop spacings ). Did go back to 25cm for a few years, but found that increased weight ( from extra row units ), loss of trash clearance ( no baled straw, we aim for maximum residue retention ) plus the increased cost of extra row units wasn't really worth it. Plenty here on 37cm spacings.
25cm would probably be the most common spacing across the whole country ?
I wouldn't be too worried about yield loss or competition, if you have a thick mulch or lots of straw in a zero till situation ( with MINIMAL disturbance ), it tends to restrict weed growth anyway
YES - I know im in a different environment, but id hazard a guess that most of the worlds cereals are grown on wider rows . . .
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- Location
- NSW, Newstralya
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- Location
- NSW, Newstralya
HIGHLY variable, largely dependent on available soil moisture - that is our single biggest limiting factor on yield. The main focus is on consistency, keeping an eye on input costs & being profitable, rather than aiming for maximum potential yield
in an "average" dryland scenario, long term yields for bread wheats / durum might be say 3 - 4 t / ha, barley a bit more.
given "favourable" conditions, have seen plenty of wheat at over 5 t/ha & barley at 7t/ha or more.
Under irrigation ( not me, I don't irrigate, but have been around plenty of it ) , wheat at say 8 t/ha, barley 10t/ha ?
"feed" wheat varieties yield a bit higher again, but with wheat, quality is more profitable than quantity ( generally . . . )
that would all be on "wider" row spacings
bare in mind though, that because moisture IS the limiting factor, we don't push the inputs chasing max yield, as we don't have the moisture to reach full potential, & wheat / barley are only part of a wider rotation - to me they come second to my "main" crops
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- Location
- NSW, Newstralya
yes
3 different 8m planters could have 48, 36 or 24 rows or outlets. One air seeder bin that could swap between the 3. The metering from the seed bin would be identical for all 3 ie - if it was going out at 50kg / ha on one planter, it would be 50kg / ha on all 3, it just means the seed in the furrow for the 24 outlet planter would be twice as thick as the 48 outlet planter, but the overall rate / ha would be the same.
I have run airseeders ( both trailed behind the implement & front mounted on the tractor ) for years and have always swapped them between various implements of different widths & row spacing, doing contract planting for other farms. The main thing is to just calibrate the output of the seed bin in relation to planting width . . .
Never really worry about seeding charts, an actual bucket calibration is always best
pretty simple if youre doing it all the time, but easy to get confused if not familiar with it
2 planters, both 12m, one on 1m spacings, another on 25cm, same air seeder out front. Same calibration / settings for equivalent kg / ha for each, just 4 times as much product for same rate in the 1m rows compared to 250 mm
same bin, but on an 8 m x 333mm row spacing bar. Just have to recalibrate it to 8m width, that's all
actually, I don't even really have to calibrate the bin for the different widths. As its all electric drive, as long as ive done a bucket test on the product & calibrated it initially, to change widths I just change the machine width on the controller screen ( for the same product )
I love electric drive. 14 + years of off farm contracting and my own farming, with the biggest issue being rats chewing the wiring out under the cab on one occasion.
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- Location
- NSW, Newstralya
our bins are all of the pressurised types, rather than a venturi style metering system which are a LOT more sensitive to air flow & back pressure, but we still need to take the layout of air hoses & plumbing into account to minimise any issues with blocking or unevenness
bravheart
Member
- Location
- scottish borders
My thoughts on this
Have no idea about the science behind air flows, pipe sizes etc. and seed stall but have intimate knowledge of using a df2 front tank with drain pipe pipes front to back(whatever diameter they are) aka @KennyO avatar and as he states seed flow at higher rates is affected, stalls and lies in the pipes.
The pipe you have setup lying at an incline along the tractor won’t help, seed flow in air works best in horizontal/vertical lines.
You are still trying to get 6m worth of seed along that pipe even though it’s through half the outlets (better?worse?)
Something to note, the co4 uses half the outlets an accord does but the seed pipes are slightly bigger bore, probably to carry double the seeds but MAY also help air flows. Is this similar on what you have left of the co6.
IMV that front tank should be used as a nurse tank and another hopper on the drill or drawbar (cut down if you like to reduce weight) as the metering system to get any forward speed at 6m.
Have no idea about the science behind air flows, pipe sizes etc. and seed stall but have intimate knowledge of using a df2 front tank with drain pipe pipes front to back(whatever diameter they are) aka @KennyO avatar and as he states seed flow at higher rates is affected, stalls and lies in the pipes.
The pipe you have setup lying at an incline along the tractor won’t help, seed flow in air works best in horizontal/vertical lines.
You are still trying to get 6m worth of seed along that pipe even though it’s through half the outlets (better?worse?)
Something to note, the co4 uses half the outlets an accord does but the seed pipes are slightly bigger bore, probably to carry double the seeds but MAY also help air flows. Is this similar on what you have left of the co6.
IMV that front tank should be used as a nurse tank and another hopper on the drill or drawbar (cut down if you like to reduce weight) as the metering system to get any forward speed at 6m.
How does the pressurized hopper actually work?
Zebbedee
Member
- Location
- Scotland in the best bit
I think the theory on the early Horsch drills with accord metering was that at high seed rates the airflow was actually blowing the seed back into the tank as it was easier than blowing the seed out the Coulter’s so pressure in the tank and exhausts on the seed pipe was there answer
Bossfarmer
Member
- Location
- between Perth and Inverness
is plan C the plough and combi drill?
plan c is spring crop
no chance I will plough and destroy 10 yrs plus of soil structure
plan d would be fallow (summer cover crop) and a year off which although expensive would still cost me less than ploughing would !