White Tailed Sea Eagle reintroduction to Wales

[Danllan]

Had a day out at the British Bird of Prey Centre today, a birthday treat for a small girl with a passion for owls.

Had a chat with the staff about the eagles they had there and the discussion turned toward the imminent reintroduction of the White Tailed Sea Eagle to Wales. It is already back in the rest of the UK, many are pleased, a few are against this, I'm fine with it.

What do you think?

 

[Still Farming]

Like anything, if it effects farmer's, the public don't want to know, but once all the re wilding, wild birds, boars, wolves etc start imposing on little Daisies hamster, cat, dog etc then action gets looked at maybe?

 

[Pigken]

Ti's said to remove golden eagles from their habitats, been the apex predator. They are huge birds, blamed for taking lot of lambs in certain places. Nature evolves, why do some feel the need to fiddle.

 

[Top Tip.]

Had a day out at the British Bird of Prey Centre today, a birthday treat for a small girl with a passion for owls.

Had a chat with the staff about the eagles they had there and the discussion turned toward the imminent reintroduction of the White Tailed Sea Eagle to Wales. It is already back in the rest of the UK, many are pleased, a few are against this, I'm fine with it.

What do you think?

They are a curse to sheep farmers, making many parts of the west coast unsuitable for sheep farming, one farm has documented losses of £30000 a year.

 

[bluebell]

Let them introduce all these "wild", extinct "creatures", "rewild" the land,"( whats not, to be or is to be built on), destock, the moors, extc, plant trees on any think left? Then wait? wait for say just a few short years? Food oh food, where are we , can we get? anything to eat? because now we cant import the amount of food the countries now "massive" population "demands" yes "demands", but by then all the "do gooders", "experts" etc have quitely left the "room" for, parstures new? some where "nice" abroad, some where, living the "good life" on a big fat pension, a Govt, paid pension,( means a taxpayers paid for pension)?

 

[Danllan]

They are a curse to sheep farmers, making many parts of the west coast unsuitable for sheep farming, one farm has documented losses of £30000 a year.

Please tell us which farm and supply a link to the documents, thanks in advance.

As for the rest, no surprise at the reaction of some. @Pigken nature didn't 'evolve' in this case, it was killed off, wiped out, made extinct using the entirely unnatural methods of firearms and poisons. As for the Golden Eagles, if what you wrote is the case, that would be a natural outcome.

All the birds to be released will have GPS trackers on them; this system was used on those released on the Isle of Wight, and has allowed 24/7 locations for all of the birds. Oddly, when this evidence is examined, it doesn't back-up claims of lamb-killing - of course, it may be falsified, but so may claims of lamb loss...

However, anyone who claims that these birds never have, don't or won't take lambs is obviously a bloody fool. They are wild creatures and opportunistic, they will take a lamb if it is easier than another food source. So the question then is, how many are an acceptable loss and what compensation should there be and on what evidence?

I lose lambs to foxes, badgers and corvids. Obviously I can't do anything about badgers, because that would be either unlawful or criminal, dependent upon my actions. But I control the others as far as necessary, leave dead rabbits here and there during lambing, and we have relatively small losses.

Bring them back, let a natural balance be reached, offer decent compensation for verifiable loss and make allowance for a cull or relocation if excessive numbers occur for whatever reason - and to avoid so-called do-gooders having a get-out, a reasonable population should be enumerated before reintroduction.

 

[Henarar]

How about yes with a right to defend your property

 

[Dry Rot]

I am all in favour of reintroductions but let's introduce them where the results can be monitored and observed by the general population? I don't know why my proposal to reintroduce the English Black Rat to Whitehall hasn't received more support. Surely it is just a logical conclusion? The bureaucrats and politicians could then observe them at close hand. Would the Serpentine support a pair of Sea Eagles? Or the Thames? Or a few wolves, badgers, and beavers in Hyde Park? Logically, what possible objections could there be?

 

[Henarar]

As for the rest, no surprise at the reaction of some. @Pigken nature didn't 'evolve' in this case, it was killed off, wiped out, made extinct using the entirely unnatural methods of firearms and poisons. As for the Golden Eagles, if what you wrote is the case, that would be a natural outcome.

perfectly natural things for peopled to do make firearms and poisons and protect their animals and livelihood, nothing unnatural about it.

 

[Danllan]

perfectly natural things for peopled to do make firearms and poisons and protect their animals and livelihood, nothing unnatural about it.

By that reasoning you'll end up claiming that someone being hit by a car is natural...

 

[Top Tip.]

Please tell us which farm and supply a link to the documents, thanks in advance.

As for the rest, no surprise at the reaction of some. @Pigken nature didn't 'evolve' in this case, it was killed off, wiped out, made extinct using the entirely unnatural methods of firearms and poisons. As for the Golden Eagles, if what you wrote is the case, that would be a natural outcome.

All the birds to be released will have GPS trackers on them; this system was used on those released on the Isle of Wight, and has allowed 24/7 locations for all of the birds. Oddly, when this evidence is examined, it doesn't back-up claims of lamb-killing - of course, it may be falsified, but so may claims of lamb loss...

However, anyone who claims that these birds never have, don't or won't take lambs is obviously a bloody fool. They are wild creatures and opportunistic, they will take a lamb if it is easier than another food source. So the question then is, how many are an acceptable loss and what compensation should there be and on what evidence?

I lose lambs to foxes, badgers and corvids. Obviously I can't do anything about badgers, because that would be either unlawful or criminal, dependent upon my actions. But I control the others as far as necessary, leave dead rabbits here and there during lambing, and we have relatively small losses.

Bring them back, let a natural balance be reached, offer decent compensation for verifiable loss and make allowance for a cull or relocation if excessive numbers occur for whatever reason - and to avoid so-called do-gooders having a get-out, a reasonable population should be enumerated before reintroduction.

There was a fairly lengthy article in the Scottish Farmer a few weeks ago with the headline of £300000 loss in ten years look it up. There are still folk in the rspb who deny that they take lambs although all the evidence is there that’s the kind of mindset you are up against and as for setting a reasonable population size you are joking. There’s about as much chance of that being implemented as there is of me winning the lottery (which I don’t play). This whole reintroduction nonsense has to be exposed for the madness it really is. We are having beavers foisted upon us in the next couple of months there was supposed to be a consultation about their introduction now it’s an engagement and we are being told where they are going. They tell us we need more trees and then they introduce beavers who eat ……..trees this is the level of intelligence that we have to cope with in these quangos people who have book knowledge but zero practical experience.

 

[Henarar]

By that reasoning you'll end up claiming that someone being hit by a car is natural...

Building cars to get about in is a natural thing for folk to do and sh1t happens

 

[Scots_Knight]

There was a fairly lengthy article in the Scottish Farmer a few weeks ago with the headline of £300000 loss in ten years look it up. There are still folk in the rspb who deny that they take lambs although all the evidence is there that’s the kind of mindset you are up against and as for setting a reasonable population size you are joking. There’s about as much chance of that being implemented as there is of me winning the lottery (which I don’t play). This whole reintroduction nonsense has to be exposed for the madness it really is. We are having beavers foisted upon us in the next couple of months there was supposed to be a consultation about their introduction now it’s an engagement and we are being told where they are going. They tell us we need more trees and then they introduce beavers who eat ……..trees this is the level of intelligence that we have to cope with in these quangos people who have book knowledge but zero practical experience.

This is the farming family that's lost £30'000 as per SF article but you've to be a subscriber to read the SF.

I'm all for some wildlife to a point but be careful what you wish for as they say.

There was something to be said for the old gamekeeper that kept things in balance

https://www.itv.com/news/2023-08-09/killer-sea-eagles-turn-familys-dream-farm-into-nightmare

 

[slackjawedyokel]

Please tell us which farm and supply a link to the documents, thanks in advance.

As for the rest, no surprise at the reaction of some. @Pigken nature didn't 'evolve' in this case, it was killed off, wiped out, made extinct using the entirely unnatural methods of firearms and poisons. As for the Golden Eagles, if what you wrote is the case, that would be a natural outcome.

All the birds to be released will have GPS trackers on them; this system was used on those released on the Isle of Wight, and has allowed 24/7 locations for all of the birds. Oddly, when this evidence is examined, it doesn't back-up claims of lamb-killing - of course, it may be falsified, but so may claims of lamb loss...

However, anyone who claims that these birds never have, don't or won't take lambs is obviously a bloody fool. They are wild creatures and opportunistic, they will take a lamb if it is easier than another food source. So the question then is, how many are an acceptable loss and what compensation should there be and on what evidence?

I lose lambs to foxes, badgers and corvids. Obviously I can't do anything about badgers, because that would be either unlawful or criminal, dependent upon my actions. But I control the others as far as necessary, leave dead rabbits here and there during lambing, and we have relatively small losses.

Bring them back, let a natural balance be reached, offer decent compensation for verifiable loss and make allowance for a cull or relocation if excessive numbers occur for whatever reason - and to avoid so-called do-gooders having a get-out, a reasonable population should be enumerated before reintroduction.

I suppose, like anything else, the devil is in the detail. I suppose it also depends on what a ‘natural population’ of these birds would look like and what effect they have in other wild species.
It’s one of those things that farmers/landowners are probably naturally against because in practice when things turn out not to be as the re-introducers said they would be, it’s far too late to put the genie back in the bottle. Controlling population size/culling? You’re joking, right?

I’ve said this before: despite going to university in the Thames valley (late 90s) id never seen a red kite until a couple of years ago when I was down that way looking at a car. Lovely creatures! I was back last year when I walked the ~40 miles along the Thames path from Reading to Oxford. Wonderful countryside- woodland, open country, hills, waterside meadows etc.
Zero ground-nesting birds though, at least none of the three I truly value having on my farm in high numbers most years (Lapwing, Curlew, Skylark)- would’ve thought it ideal countryside at least for lapwing and skylark; there were even interpretive boards about them!
Clouds of red kites though; at least 50 circling a hay field at one point.
I assume that the problem with red kites is that they are not a ‘natural’ population; they will be being fed in people’s gardens and perhaps by businesses with customers paying to watch them being fed.
If someone started feeding red kites near here, it would likely have no impact on my bottom line but it would greatly impact my enjoyment of farming and could well cause others to conclude that I’m ‘not farming properly’ when ground nesting birds are wiped out.

If sea eagles are introduced, would it be on a ‘sink or swim’ basis or would they be fed and their numbers balloon like the red kites? Would entrepreneurs make businesses out of charging people to see the feeding frenzy a-la red kites?

I fear talk of controlling numbers is woefully naive.

 

[bluebell]

Danllan, your right, foxes, magpies ,have soon found that on bin day, today here in my part of essex is, "feast day" for food?, theres a stretch of road in cambridge leading up to the council rubbish dump, a few years ago i noticed the trees lining the road were full of crow nests, i wonder why? Many animals, creatures very soon adapt/ prosper beside, or because of humans? if they can get, find, eat food more easily than having to hunt for it they will? why wouldnt they, polar bears , seen on a tv program, hang around dumps, towns, in the outer reaches of canada etc etc, ?

 

[bluebell]

Slackjawedyokel, well said, i cant agree more, badgers are the same, many years ago my brother was woken in the middle of the night by a commotion going on outside in the chicken coop, went out to find a badger trying to pull a chicken out of the coop from underneath the hutch?

 

[Top Tip.]

I suppose, like anything else, the devil is in the detail. I suppose it also depends on what a ‘natural population’ of these birds would look like and what effect they have in other wild species.
It’s one of those things that farmers/landowners are probably naturally against because in practice when things turn out not to be as the re-introducers said they would be, it’s far too late to put the genie back in the bottle. Controlling population size/culling? You’re joking, right?

I’ve said this before: despite going to university in the Thames valley (late 90s) id never seen a red kite until a couple of years ago when I was down that way looking at a car. Lovely creatures! I was back last year when I walked the ~40 miles along the Thames path from Reading to Oxford. Wonderful countryside- woodland, open country, hills, waterside meadows etc.
Zero ground-nesting birds though, at least none of the three I truly value having on my farm in high numbers most years (Lapwing, Curlew, Skylark)- would’ve thought it ideal countryside at least for lapwing and skylark; there were even interpretive boards about them!
Clouds of red kites though; at least 50 circling a hay field at one point.
I assume that the problem with red kites is that they are not a ‘natural’ population; they will be being fed in people’s gardens and perhaps by businesses with customers paying to watch them being fed.
If someone started feeding red kites near here, it would likely have no impact on my bottom line but it would greatly impact my enjoyment of farming and could well cause others to conclude that I’m ‘not farming properly’ when ground nesting birds are wiped out.

If sea eagles are introduced, would it be on a ‘sink or swim’ basis or would they be fed and their numbers balloon like the red kites? Would entrepreneurs make businesses out of charging people to see the feeding frenzy a-la red kites?

I fear talk of controlling numbers is woefully naive.

When I farmed on the west coast we had one of the first breeding pairs of sea eagles on the farm as they were released on Rhum we were just a short hop across. These birds were monitored night and day. I was approached by the wardens one morning and asked if they could shoot rabbits to feed the birds no problem I said. The next morning I met them again and they said they’d had no joy with the rabbits but they had gone to the local coop and cleaned them out of fresh chickens they were duly carried up the hill to feed the birds this is how natural the reintroduction was . The last one was exterminated in Scotland for carrying off a child , they are quite capable off doing that again but our conservation groups are willing to risk that in the name of rewilding.

 

[Danllan]

I am all in favour of reintroductions but let's introduce them where the results can be monitored and observed by the general population? I don't know why my proposal to reintroduce the English Black Rat to Whitehall hasn't received more support. Surely it is just a logical conclusion? The bureaucrats and politicians could then observe them at close hand. Would the Serpentine support a pair of Sea Eagles? Or the Thames? Or a few wolves, badgers, and beavers in Hyde Park? Logically, what possible objections could there be?

Neither the black nor brown rat is native to the British Isles, both originating in Asia.

This is the farming family that's lost £30'000 as per SF article but you've to be a subscriber to read the SF.

I'm all for some wildlife to a point but be careful what you wish for as they say.

There was something to be said for the old gamekeeper that kept things in balance

https://www.itv.com/news/2023-08-09/killer-sea-eagles-turn-familys-dream-farm-into-nightmare

Gamekeepers did and do nothing of the sort and to claim otherwise is untrue and weakens any argument being made against the eagles.

I suppose, like anything else, the devil is in the detail...

If sea eagles are introduced, would it be on a ‘sink or swim’ basis or would they be fed and their numbers balloon like the red kites? Would entrepreneurs make businesses out of charging people to see the feeding frenzy a-la red kites?

I fear talk of controlling numbers is woefully naive.

I can't write for the people doing the reintroducing, but I'm for reintroduction and monitoring, no feed-stations; just a natural balance being returned to.

When I farmed on the west coast we had one of the first breeding pairs of sea eagles on the farm as they were released on Rhum we were just a short hop across. These birds were monitored night and day. I was approached by the wardens one morning and asked if they could shoot rabbits to feed the birds no problem I said. The next morning I met them again and they said they’d had no joy with the rabbits but they had gone to the local coop and cleaned them out of fresh chickens they were duly carried up the hill to feed the birds this is how natural the reintroduction was . The last one was exterminated in Scotland for carrying off a child , they are quite capable off doing that again but our conservation groups are willing to risk that in the name of rewilding.

A poor effort form your chums there is no argument against a good effort here.

 

[Scots_Knight]

Gamekeepers did and do nothing of the sort and to claim otherwise is untrue and weakens any argument being made against the eagles

Who said I was against the introduction of White tale eagles in Wales, especially on your patch, have as many as you want for all the difference it'll make to me

Are you sure you've taken your happy pills this morning, your not your usual cheery self

 

[Dry Rot]

The delightful idea that surplus Sea Eagles could be trapped up and moved to another area if they were "surplus" or causing damage is total nonsense as I know from my own experiences.

Back in the 1970s, I used to spend my summer holidays with a falconer friend on the west of Ireland. He flew peregrine falcons but his trained birds were bothered by wild falcons. So he trapped them up and gave them to a guest returning home to the USA from Shannon Airport, I think 200 miles away, with instructions to release the birds before getting on the plane. The wild falcons were back as usual causing a nuisance by lunch time. If you must meddle with Nature, best know what you are doing before you do it.

I trained and ran working pointers for decades on Scottish moors. There is nothing like working a trained pointer to show you what is about as there is no shooting, just a work out of the scent and a note of what is seen. (I even sold dogs to the RSPB!). Half the time, the scientists really don't know what they are talking about but you can't tell them.